Weight Distribution Hitch Question

[aczlan]

Sorry for the late reply, I was looking back and realized that I didn't reply when I thought I had.

Not necessarily true.
Although you can upgrade the hitch to one that will carry more weight directly, that may not translate directly for the vehicle. The extra weight can / will still have additional impact on things like the reduced weight on the front axle. If there's too much weight on the back causing too little on the front, it won't matter if you have a drop-forged hitch capable of handling 100,000 pounds of tongue weight.

True, that's what axle limits are there for. If you have enough weight behind the rear axle to appreciably lighten the front axle, you are probbaly over the rear axle limits.

The other thing is that changing the hitch doesn't change the rating from the manufacturer. In an accident, you could be on the hook to prove that either your tongue didn't exceed the manufacturer's rating, or that the weight didn't exceed a "safe value." If you've changed the hitch, you may need documentation from the manufacturer stating that your rating has been changed to "X" as a result.

You would be on the hook that you were within 2 ratings:
1. Vehicle/trailer ratings (axle loads, GCWR, etc)
2. Hitch ratings (ie: within the limits for your properly installed receiver)
The hitch manufacture is responsible to determine that their hitch ratings will be safe for your vehicle. For that they have someone who puts a PE stamp on the drawings and they carry liability insurance.

Aaron Z

 

[dstig1]

Sort of, but not really.

He was not overweight in terms of the max towing capacity. He was overweight only with respect to how much tongue weight he should have been carrying with a 10k load and no WDH.

This has been said before, but it's worth pointing out again... a WDH does NOT increase the towing capacity for a vehicle. Max towing is max towing is max towing. PERIOD.

This particular truck has a max tongue weight rating of 500 lbs. If the tongue is targeted to carry 10% of the total trailer weight, that translates to 5000 lbs for the trailer. The vehicle is rated to pull 10,000 - always. The 5000 "limit" is artificial in that it is derived from the max tongue weight that the truck is rated for.

I am not trying to say that the manufacturer labels are wrong... I am only trying to help everyone understand how those numbers are arrived at for this vehicle so that everyone can understand what these numbers really mean.

Safe towing is something that's actually reasonably easy to understand how to do. But, trailer dealers, vehicle dealers, and even hitch manufacturers / dealers don't take the time to explain to people what the ratings mean and why they need to heed the numbers. I'd love to see trailer manufacturers "sponsor" education through the dealers so that people will know how to tow safely.

There are two semi-independent factors here that you may not be fully getting. On the one point - towing capacity of the vehicle - you are exactly correct (whatever the rating is, it is most certainly high enough for the trailer/load described). But the second part you are perhaps not fully getting - the hitch itself is overloaded. Both in tongue weight and total trailer load. Think of it as putting a weenie little hitch from a Subaru on this 3/4 ton (not too far from reality it seems... ) Yes, the vehicle is still rated for 10-12-14k lbs (whatever it is) but no way the hitch can handle that load. That is the case with many of the stock hitches on these trucks (mine included, which is why I went WD once I found this out on my F250).

 

[meburdick]

There are two semi-independent factors here that you may not be fully getting. On the one point - towing capacity of the vehicle - you are exactly correct (whatever the rating is, it is most certainly high enough for the trailer/load described). But the second part you are perhaps not fully getting - the hitch itself is overloaded. Both in tongue weight and total trailer load. Think of it as putting a weenie little hitch from a Subaru on this 3/4 ton (not too far from reality it seems... ) Yes, the vehicle is still rated for 10-12-14k lbs (whatever it is) but no way the hitch can handle that load. That is the case with many of the stock hitches on these trucks (mine included, which is why I went WD once I found this out on my F250).

There are two directions for bearing the load... Horizontal (GTWR) and vertical (max tongue weight). The horizontal max rating will never change, and that's the point I'm making.

Your comment about exceeding the weight rating of the hitch may, or may not, be true. The hitch itself may well be rated higher than, say, 500 lbs but the vehicle might not be. Or, there may be 10k of trailer weight with only 5% on the tongue. This is not over limit at all, but it is immensely unsafe. In order to properly and safely tow a 10k trailer, you need 10% of the weight on the tongue. At that point, without a WDH, this vehicle is overloaded.

 

[dstig1]

My inlaws broke ground today building a house adjacent to mine. One contractor shows up towing a nice 12000 pound tilt trailer with a tracked skid steer on it. I was drooling over his trailer and noticed it wasn't using a WD hitch. During a break, I asked him if he knew the capacity of his stock hitch on his 2500 dodge ram, with cummins diesel. He said he didn't. I told him it probably wasn't rated to tow what he was towing and sure enough, the sticker on the hitch said 500/5000 without a WD and 1000/10000 with. He didn't even know what a weight distribution hitch was. He was probably 4000 over his limit and had no idea. Scares me to think of what people are towing without towing knowledge. Not that I want the government to get more involved, but maybe an additional stamp on someone's license wouldn't be a bad thing. I have to be endorsed to ride a motorcycle but not to tow these weights? Also, that hitch was attached with six bolts approximately 7/16" in size.

There are two directions for bearing the load... Horizontal (GTWR) and vertical (max tongue weight). The horizontal max rating will never change, and that's the point I'm making.

Your comment about exceeding the weight rating of the hitch may, or may not, be true. The hitch itself may well be rated higher than, say, 500 lbs but the vehicle might not be. Or, there may be 10k of trailer weight with only 5% on the tongue. This is not over limit at all, but it is immensely unsafe. In order to properly and safely tow a 10k trailer, you need 10% of the weight on the tongue. At that point, without a WDH, this vehicle is overloaded.

Sorry - I was not clear, perhaps. You were replying to post #57 (above) which was the reference I was using. The hitch is rated 500 lb tongue, 5000 lbs max trailer in weight carrying mode. The hitch is not rated high enough to carry the trailer it was towing in weight carrying mode in this case. It is often true of stock OEM hitches on this class of truck. He is over tongue load and hitch capacity but probably not over vehicle capacity. The hitch is the weak link here.

 

[meburdick]

Sorry - I was not clear, perhaps. You were replying to post #57 (above) which was the reference I was using. The hitch is rated 500 lb tongue, 5000 lbs max trailer in weight carrying mode. The hitch is not rated high enough to carry the trailer it was towing in weight carrying mode in this case. It is often true of stock OEM hitches on this class of truck. He is over tongue load and hitch capacity but probably not over vehicle capacity. The hitch is the weak link here.

No... The hitch is capable of taking 10,000 trailer weight as is evidenced by the second rating "with" a WDH. My point is that the reason there is a 5k limit without the WDH is because the hitch/frame/axle/etc is because the hitch can only handle 500 lbs of tongue weight. Using the "10% rule", 500 lbs of tongue weight is available for trailer weights up to 5000 lbs. Going above that weight requires more tongue weight than the hitch can carry, so a WDH is necessary to transfer some of that tongue weight back to the trailer and some to the front axle of the tow vehicle.

 

[radioman]

I think this is worth repeating. It doesn't matter how much weight you can legally tow or manufacturer says you can tow - the biggest thing about using weight distributing equipment is that it moves the center of gravity from behind the rear axles of towing vehicle when loaded to over the rear axles towards the center of the towing vehicle. This REALLY spreads the weight on the towing vehicle for safety.

 

[jejeosborne]

Sort of, but not really.

He was not overweight in terms of the max towing capacity. He was overweight only with respect to how much tongue weight he should have been carrying with a 10k load and no WDH.

He really was over the 5000 lb limit by about 4000 lbs. Think of all these limits as links in a chain: axle ratings, hitch ratings, draw bar ratings, ball ratings, tongue ratings, tow ratings, tire ratings, payload ratings, etc. If any of these ratings are exceeded, the chain may break or unsafe conditions exist. End of story.

For some reason you are thinking that the manufacturer is calculating the trailer weight rating using the tongue rating times ten. Who knows, maybe they calculate the tongue rating by trailer rating divided by ten. I don't know or care. He has exceeded a limit. Pulling a skid steer weighing 7000 lbs on a 2000 lb trailer from a "bumper style" hitch without a WD hitch using a 3/4 ton truck is not safe in my mind no matter what the hitch ratings are. As I have said in other threads which I have seen posted in this one as well, the rear hitch bolts are taking all the load without a WD hitch and the front tires (which are responsible for a majority of the braking) of the truck are being relieved of vital weight.

This has been said before, but it's worth pointing out again... a WDH does NOT increase the towing capacity for a vehicle. Max towing is max towing is max towing. PERIOD.

WRONG!
WDH does increase the towing capacity of a vehicle when using a "bumper style" hitch. Goose necks and 5th wheels have to adhere to payload limits. Posts like this could give readers the wrong information and create even more unsafe conditions. It should be easy to understand that one needs to have at least 10% tongue weight, not unload the front tires of the tow vehicle, and not put all the load on the rear most two bolts of the hitch (where the truck frame is also the weakest). If this is not true, why do they print the separate limits, just for fun?

I would think it would be real easy for manufactures to install a hitch that has the same rating as the tow vehicle without a WD hitch but they don't. Obviously they don't or do they? Who knows, the hitches may already be strong enough and they print these ratings because of the other safety reasons I mentioned.

Jeff

 

[joshuabardwell]

WRONG!
WDH does increase the towing capacity of a vehicle when using a "bumper style" hitch.

This is sort of true and sort of not true. When some people say the "tow capacity of the vehicle," they are referring to things like suspension, brakes, frame, axle rating, and so forth. They are referring to the vehicle and not the hitch, ball, and so forth. They think of those as two separate systems. From that perspective, adding a WD system does not change the tow capacity of the vehicle. Other people, when referring to the "tow capacity of the vehicle," are referring to everything attached to the vehicle, short of the trailer. From that perspective, the WD system may increase the tow capacity of the vehicle, if it was the hitch's weight rating that was the limiting factor. In other words, if your vehicle (with factory hitch) has a tow rating of 5000 lbs without a WD system and a 10000 lb rating with a WD system, then adding a WD system could be said to increase the tow rating of the vehicle. But I know for my truck, the specs say the truck itself is rated for 13k, but the hitch is only rated for 10k (with WD). So I would say that with or without a WD system, my truck is rated for 13k, but I can only tow up to 10k (with a WD system), and with my current trailer, I can only tow up to 7k, because it's a 7k trailer.

I would think it would be real easy for manufactures to install a hitch that has the same rating as the tow vehicle without a WD hitch but they don't. Obviously they don't or do they? Who knows, the hitches may already be strong enough and they print these ratings because of the other safety reasons I mentioned.

They usually don't, and I don't know why. Probably money. There are a few exceptions. A regular poster on TBN (sorry--don't remember who) talks about his Tundra, which has a frame-integral hitch that can tow the truck's full 10k weight without a WD system. But most factory hitches require a WD system to achieve anything close to the truck's full rated capacity. And it's not "other safety reasons," because you can swap the factory hitch with an aftermarket one that equals or exceeds the truck's towing capacity without a WD system.

 

[aczlan]

WRONG!
WDH does increase the towing capacity of a vehicle when using a "bumper style" hitch. Goose necks and 5th wheels have to adhere to payload limits. Posts like this could give readers the wrong information and create even more unsafe conditions. It should be easy to understand that one needs to have at least 10% tongue weight, not unload the front tires of the tow vehicle, and not put all the load on the rear most two bolts of the hitch (where the truck frame is also the weakest). If this is not true, why do they print the separate limits, just for fun?

This is sort of true and sort of not true. When some people say the "tow capacity of the vehicle," they are referring to things like suspension, brakes, frame, axle rating, and so forth. They are referring to the vehicle and not the hitch, ball, and so forth. They think of those as two separate systems. From that perspective, adding a WD system does not change the tow capacity of the vehicle. Other people, when referring to the "tow capacity of the vehicle," are referring to everything attached to the vehicle, short of the trailer. From that perspective, the WD system may increase the tow capacity of the vehicle, if it was the hitch's weight rating that was the limiting factor. In other words, if your vehicle (with factory hitch) has a tow rating of 5000 lbs without a WD system and a 10000 lb rating with a WD system, then adding a WD system could be said to increase the tow rating of the vehicle. But I know for my truck, the specs say the truck itself is rated for 13k, but the hitch is only rated for 10k (with WD). So I would say that with or without a WD system, my truck is rated for 13k, but I can only tow up to 10k (with a WD system), and with my current trailer, I can only tow up to 7k, because it's a 7k trailer.

Exactly, WD can help reduce rear axle loads by adding weight to the front axle, but it cannot change the GCWR or the vehicle axle limits.

I would think it would be real easy for manufactures to install a hitch that has the same rating as the tow vehicle without a WD hitch but they don't. Obviously they don't or do they? Who knows, the hitches may already be strong enough and they print these ratings because of the other safety reasons I mentioned.

They usually don't, and I don't know why. Probably money. There are a few exceptions. A regular poster on TBN (sorry--don't remember who) talks about his Tundra, which has a frame-integral hitch that can tow the truck's full 10k weight without a WD system. But most factory hitches require a WD system to achieve anything close to the truck's full rated capacity. And it's not "other safety reasons," because you can swap the factory hitch with an aftermarket one that equals or exceeds the truck's towing capacity without a WD system.

I posted several links to Putman and Reese hitches which are rated for the truck's full load. I think Diamondpilot is the member who you are thinking of with one on his Tundra. Those hitches (as you say) do not change the vehicle ratings, but do allow you to haul a heavier trailer as long as you stay withing the manufacture's axle/vehicle weight ratings.

Aaron Z

 

[joshuabardwell]

You know, it occurs to me that one reason manufacturers often ship bumper-pull hitches that can't reach the truck's full capacity is that, for higher-capacity trucks, it's kind of expected that a gooseneck or 5th-wheel will be used. Dunno. Just a thought.