Weight Distribution Hitch Question

[meburdick]

I have read some of the manuals that come with these aftermarket hitches and they all say that you should follow the vehicle manufactures recommended weights as published in the manual. That is an easy out for these hitch manufacturers.

It's not an easy out at all... The ratings from the manufacturer take into consideration ALL of the components involved in towing. Putting an aftermarket hitch on your vehicle may provide a beefier hitch component, but it does not change the weight ratings for the axles, the strength of the frame, or any of the other pieces that make up the full "system". The hitch manufacturer is not qualified to provide a new tow rating for your vehicle as the result of bolting on a new hitch.

 

[jejeosborne]

A WD hitch is going to put at least as much strain on the frame as a non-WD hitch. Think about the loading, instead of vertical downward loading in the back of the hitch, you now have upward loading on the back of the hitch and at least as much downward loading on the the front of the hitch. See below for an illustration
<img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=277615"/>
What WD gives you is less bending movement on the hitch which allows a lighter (and cheaper) crosstube.

Agree 100%.

Aaron Z

Most hitches are attached using about 6 bolts. It is obviously best to spread the load to the frame using all bolts vs just the rear bolts. I would also venture to say that the further rearward points on the frame (last 6") is considerably weaker than say 18" from the end. I agree that there is less torque being applied to the cross tube which in turn translates to what I just mentioned.

 

[Diamondpilot]

While I have installed heavier hitches I have never done so with the intent of exceeding the trucks ratings. I am doing so to take full advantage of the truck since the factory hitch was not up to par so to speak.

Now this is not fully a true statement. I have towed above and beyond my trucks capability a few times and I know the risk. But I would have done so with the weaker factory hitch also and in that case been taking a much greater risk. Again, the reason for the better stronger hitch is to take advantage of the trucks capability.

Chris

 

[aczlan]

Not really since it is actually reversing the conventional torque load on the tube to the other direction to load the front tires. Can't really make it lighter.

I meant less rotational movement, not bending. Yes, there is more vertical downforce on the hitch, but there is less rotational force as well.

Aaron Z

 

[joshuabardwell]

Not that I want to over dramatize the issue but I am seeing a lot of people towing dangerous setups and not even knowing it. If Jim-Bob kills a family member I will be even more active.

I second that! I am regularly horrified by what I see rolling down the road behind people's trucks.

 

[jejeosborne]

Every manufacturer advertises their vehicle's "max towing capacity" as what it is... the "max" capacity. That 2500 has a max towing capacity of 10,000 lbs. The "fine print" will tell you that you will need to achieve this limit by way of using a WDH, and if you do not, you will not be able to tow a trailer with a GTWR of over 5,000 lbs. That number is NOT the max towing capacity.

If the max tongue weight were 700 lbs, the max trailer weight without a WDH would be 7,000 lbs. It is EXACTLY a factor of 10 between the two because of the max tongue weight and the fact that it must represent no less than 10% of the GTWR.

I understand that a limit was exceeded, I understand that "weakest link in the chain" notion. I've said this before, and I will say it again... I'm not trying to tell anyone that the numbers advertised by the manufacturer are wrong... I am merely trying to help people understand WHY the numbers without a WDH come out as they do. I am in complete agreement with Wolfpack2 and the statement about adhering to guidelines.

The comment about a WDH being there to "change the center of gravity" isn't really correct. It's referred to as a "weight distributing" hitch for a reason... It's purpose is to distribute some of the tongue weight of the trailer to axles other than the rear axle of the tow vehicle. As a result, the center of gravity will change, but that isn't its sole purpose.

I can't speak for DiamondPilot, but I have a '11 Tundra with the integrated hitch. Maybe the comments you're thinking of are mine.

I agree with what you are saying. Max tow capacity ratings are if every other piece of the puzzle or link to the chain is met. Any item not met is the limiting factor and sets the "current max tow capacity". This guy on the job site had a towing capacity of 5000 lbs /500lbs tongue with his setup. He was hauling approximately 9000 lbs and all he needed was a $200 WD hitch and all would have been legal.

I was definitely referring to diamondpilot but he tows with a Ford and a Nissan.

I have a toyhauler trailer that has about 20% tongue weight. It has about 1000 lbs on the tongue and 4000 on the axles when loaded. Unloaded it is about 10% so I obviously use a WD with this trailer. The 10% number is a minimum number which can get someone in trouble well before on the tongue vs the trailer weight.

 

[jejeosborne]

It's not an easy out at all... The ratings from the manufacturer take into consideration ALL of the components involved in towing. Putting an aftermarket hitch on your vehicle may provide a beefier hitch component, but it does not change the weight ratings for the axles, the strength of the frame, or any of the other pieces that make up the full "system". The hitch manufacturer is not qualified to provide a new tow rating for your vehicle as the result of bolting on a new hitch.

I meant it was an easy out for the aftermarket manufacturer to not be liable if the hitch was stronger than the truck frame or an unsafe condition was created by using their higher capacity hitch. It was in regards to joshuabardswell's comment.

You and I are on the same page and are in agreement. I am just wanting to make sure that when aftermarket hitches are utilized, they consider, as diamondpilot does, and use the truck capacities and not the new hitch capacities.

 

[meburdick]

I am just wanting to make sure that when aftermarket hitches are utilized, they consider, as diamondpilot does, and use the truck capacities and not the new hitch capacities.

Taking it a little further, it's best to always find and use the lowest rating of any individual "piece" since that will always be the limiting factor. You can't take a 1992 Toyota Pickup with a 4 cylinder motor, put a Class V hitch on it, and expect to pull a 15,000 lb trailer. The whole system has to work together and the least capable part of the system has to be where the limitations come from.

 

[Fordman1981]

Can you use a wd hitch on a penal hitch?

 

[dstig1]

Can you use a wd hitch on a penal hitch?

Gawd I hope you mean Pintle hitch :shocked: :laughing: And, if so, I do not believe so...

 

[Fordman1981]

Yeah I meant pintle hitch auto correct on phone got me and does that mean you have to be limited to the lower rating on the hitch then?

 

[jejeosborne]

Can you use a wd hitch on a penal hitch?

I don't know but you have to distribute weight when doing penile hitching. Lol

If your penile hitch is the weakest link, if feel sorry for you and your rig. Maybe get an aftermarket one.

Oh I am sure I could think of more but I will quit.

 

[downslope]

It's not an easy out at all... The ratings from the manufacturer take into consideration ALL of the components involved in towing. Putting an aftermarket hitch on your vehicle may provide a beefier hitch component, but it does not change the weight ratings for the axles, the strength of the frame, or any of the other pieces that make up the full "system". The hitch manufacturer is not qualified to provide a new tow rating for your vehicle as the result of bolting on a new hitch.

Another thing, if you look at the 2008 Ford manuals in Azclan's links they have a warning:

ON PICK-UP TRUCKS, the trailer hitch provided on this vehicle enhances collision protection for the fuel system. DO NOT REMOVE!

Does mean it's OK to REPLACE with something different but not REMOVE? I wonder if the aftermarket hitches are designed and tested to provide the same protection?

The manual also gives a warning that towing beyond the maximum tongue weight in the chart "could result in vehicle structural damage".
Again, do we know if the aftermarket manufacturer designs, tests and certifies that structural damage will not occur when utilizing their product at maximum loads?

 

[downslope]

Can you use a wd hitch on a penal hitch?

Gawd I hope you mean Pintle hitch :shocked: :laughing: And, if so, I do not believe so...

Actually my brother-in-law did have a penal hitch, plus a large fine as well. Something about an investment scam involving senior citizens.

 

[SailaK]

Good afternoon! First post on the board here, I actually stumbled across this discussion while searching for more well-defined information regarding trailer overloading. As the owner of a tractor dealership, and heavy-equipment rental store - this subject is one that I have to deal with on a daily basis. One thing that i'm quite surprised to see hasn't been thoroughly discussed is the vehicles maximum towing capacity; which is wholly dictated by GCWR, and not "Maximum Trailer Capacity" as most manufacturers would like you to believe. While yes, theoretically it is true that a 2012 Ford F-150 is "factory rated" for something like 11,000lbs, that rating is a far cry from the truth. Your vehicles GCWR is the total maximum allowable weight, loaded onto, hauled behind, or stuffed inside your vehicle. So (using rough numbers for conversational purposes), let's say that the F-150 is indeed "rated" to tow 11,000lbs. It has a maximum GCWR of roughly 12,000lbs. If you subtract the curb weight (again, estimating) of 5,000lbs, then your actual LEGAL towing capacity is only 7,000lbs. That doesn't include the weight of your passengers, the suitcases or junk behind the back seat, and it doesn't even include the weight of the trailer hitch insert (if you want to get REALLY picky!). I frequently have customers wanting to tow equipment that weighs in excess of 12,000 - 14,000lbs with something like an F-150, Suburban, etc... Now, try to stop that 11,000lb load, or put the rig in an emergency maneuver situation... You see my point! Just because the factory puts a sticker on the door that says you can haul "X", does not mean that after running the numbers - you still can. If you put an 11,000lb trailer behind that truck, even with a weight distributing hitch, you are without question, at least 5,000- 7,000 beyond what your truck can LEGALLY tow. And friends, that's all that matters when the State Trooper or Weighmaster is writing you a $2,000 ticket for being overloaded! Just the traditional "two cents". Thanks, and have a great day!

-Tim

 

[jejeosborne]

Good afternoon! First post on the board here, I actually stumbled across this discussion while searching for more well-defined information regarding trailer overloading. As the owner of a tractor dealership, and heavy-equipment rental store - this subject is one that I have to deal with on a daily basis. One thing that i'm quite surprised to see hasn't been thoroughly discussed is the vehicles maximum towing capacity; which is wholly dictated by GCWR, and not "Maximum Trailer Capacity" as most manufacturers would like you to believe. While yes, theoretically it is true that a 2012 Ford F-150 is "factory rated" for something like 11,000lbs, that rating is a far cry from the truth. Your vehicles GCWR is the total maximum allowable weight, loaded onto, hauled behind, or stuffed inside your vehicle. So (using rough numbers for conversational purposes), let's say that the F-150 is indeed "rated" to tow 11,000lbs. It has a maximum GCWR of roughly 12,000lbs. If you subtract the curb weight (again, estimating) of 5,000lbs, then your actual LEGAL towing capacity is only 7,000lbs. That doesn't include the weight of your passengers, the suitcases or junk behind the back seat, and it doesn't even include the weight of the trailer hitch insert (if you want to get REALLY picky!). I frequently have customers wanting to tow equipment that weighs in excess of 12,000 - 14,000lbs with something like an F-150, Suburban, etc... Now, try to stop that 11,000lb load, or put the rig in an emergency maneuver situation... You see my point! Just because the factory puts a sticker on the door that says you can haul "X", does not mean that after running the numbers - you still can. If you put an 11,000lb trailer behind that truck, even with a weight distributing hitch, you are without question, at least 5,000- 7,000 beyond what your truck can LEGALLY tow. And friends, that's all that matters when the State Trooper or Weighmaster is writing you a $2,000 ticket for being overloaded! Just the traditional "two cents". Thanks, and have a great day!

-Tim

First of all welcome to the forums. It is a very informative place to spend some time. I have the Ford truck you describe but must say you have been given some wrong information. My ecoboost is indeed rated to legally tow 11,300 lbs. I have towed about 9500 lbs from a rental yard like yours with a proper WD hitch just fine. Here is a picture from my manual and the sticker on my truck. My GCWR is 16,900 which is where your discrepancy is. I am sure that the tow values are reverse calculated as you describe but the values have got to equal out and mine do.

Hopefully this information will allow you to send more equipment out the door and keep more customers happy.

 

[newbury]

<snip>So (using rough numbers for conversational purposes), let's say that the F-150 is indeed "rated" to tow 11,000lbs. It has a maximum GCWR of roughly 12,000lbs. If you subtract the curb weight (again, estimating) of 5,000lbs, then your actual LEGAL towing capacity is only 7,000lbs. <snip>

Welcome aboard. That was brought up before in this thread, post #49 I think.

But my listed GCWR is only 20,000lbs

So I have a curb weight of about 7K and I have to keep the truck bed "light" to legally tow my 12K trailer.

We've had threads on what states focus on and it seems some states, Virginia for one, focus on GCWR and don't care much about your load but rather your listed capacities. If I was driving down the road with a smaller truck or my E350 diesel van I couldn't LEGALLY tow my trailer empty. Other states may weigh everything. But in another thread http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/trailers-transportation/242864-where-have-youve-been-stopped.html it seems that if you look clean, everything chained and strapped down properly, and are not commercial, it's rare you get stopped.

In jejeosborne's example picture the vehicle directly below the one he highlighted in yellow does have a GCVWR of 11,100 listed AND a max trailer weight of 5,700 lbs listed. So it seems the manual mentions it, but who reads the manual?

 

[jejeosborne]

The vehicle under my highlighted truck on the manual has the 3.7 liter motor which is very limiting. Yes each vehicle is considerably different based on how it is equipped.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Good afternoon! First post on the board here, I actually stumbled across this discussion while searching for more well-defined information regarding trailer overloading. As the owner of a tractor dealership, and heavy-equipment rental store - this subject is one that I have to deal with on a daily basis. One thing that i'm quite surprised to see hasn't been thoroughly discussed is the vehicles maximum towing capacity; which is wholly dictated by GCWR, and not "Maximum Trailer Capacity" as most manufacturers would like you to believe. While yes, theoretically it is true that a 2012 Ford F-150 is "factory rated" for something like 11,000lbs, that rating is a far cry from the truth. Your vehicles GCWR is the total maximum allowable weight, loaded onto, hauled behind, or stuffed inside your vehicle. So (using rough numbers for conversational purposes), let's say that the F-150 is indeed "rated" to tow 11,000lbs. It has a maximum GCWR of roughly 12,000lbs. If you subtract the curb weight (again, estimating) of 5,000lbs, then your actual LEGAL towing capacity is only 7,000lbs. That doesn't include the weight of your passengers, the suitcases or junk behind the back seat, and it doesn't even include the weight of the trailer hitch insert (if you want to get REALLY picky!). I frequently have customers wanting to tow equipment that weighs in excess of 12,000 - 14,000lbs with something like an F-150, Suburban, etc... Now, try to stop that 11,000lb load, or put the rig in an emergency maneuver situation... You see my point! Just because the factory puts a sticker on the door that says you can haul "X", does not mean that after running the numbers - you still can. If you put an 11,000lb trailer behind that truck, even with a weight distributing hitch, you are without question, at least 5,000- 7,000 beyond what your truck can LEGALLY tow. And friends, that's all that matters when the State Trooper or Weighmaster is writing you a $2,000 ticket for being overloaded! Just the traditional "two cents". Thanks, and have a great day!

-Tim

While i agree with you the max GCWR is the final say your numbers are off. My 08 Titan is 15,000# and change but the truck weighs 5,600# with me in it and 3/4 tank of fuel. So it can not do the full 9,500# Nissan claims but can do a honest 9,400#

Same is true with my 06 F350 that has 24,000# GCWR but weighs 7,600# with me in it and 3/4 fuel.

All weights done at a Cat Crrtified scale.

Chris

 

[downslope]

...We've had threads on what states focus on and it seems some states, Virginia for one, focus on GCWR and don't care much about your load but rather your listed capacities. If I was driving down the road with a smaller truck or my E350 diesel van I couldn't LEGALLY tow my trailer empty. Other states may weigh everything...

I was wondering how in a state like Virginia they focus on GCWR. Since like you say it's buried in the owner's manual and can vary based on engine option and axle ratios. Do they have all the specs in a computer or book and then start checking out what axle ratio and motor you have?