How self sufficient are you ? Honestly ?

[forgeblast]

homedistiller.org has some nice plans

Emergency Water Kit has the same ceramic filters that the berkley has but you put them in a 5 gallon plastic bucket and save bout 200.00 over the berkley.
Pool shock is also useful.


As far as people not being fully self sufficent. I would think that if you were able to model your situation on a monastary, you might get really close to being self sufficent. Some monastarys are self-supporting meaning they trade for things they need, which after (I Feel) an event is what most places will gravitate to.(I hope).
"Whenever possible the monastery should be laid out so that everything essential, that is to say water, mills, garden and workshops for the plying of the various crafts, is found within the monastery walls."
Monastery Gardens: Ancient Herbal Folklore - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com
Its a lot of old "tech" that you would need, but if you had the time and drive it could be done.

 

[Rob-D]

I wouldn't ,I said there would be those who would ! I am totally prepared to survive off the grid and find it humorous that most posted about how they would not be able to survive without it , REALLY ? I kind of remember farmers building barns ,fences , homes ,and out buildings with out nails let alone an air nailer powered by a compressor powered by a generator powered by fuel that was delivered by truck to a gas station that is powered by electricity that is powered by coal . And once you have a source of free power be it a windmill to produce limited power and pump water or a waterwheel again a limited source of power either of these would give you something to barter with and they did 100 years ago !, Would you run to the chicken coop and kill the chicken for that nights dinner or let her lay an egg a day for years ? and when you add solar and batteries to these basic sources of power your golden ! The NEED we have grown accustomed to for instant gratification and the easiest way possible to perform even basic tasks has made the thought of being able to survive without cable and a new truck unthinkable ! And for those taking a hand full of medications a day, well are you sure you really need them ? or are you taking mood elevators and stress relievers and blood pressure pills along with anti anxiety pills along with anti acids and sleeping pills to deal with the stress from trying to figure how to pay for your new truck and 5,000 square foot house you don't need for any reason except to show the neighbors how "RICH" you are ?

I think you missed it. My comment was based on this statement:

those unprepaired won't...

those unpre pair ed won't...

Dave said:

"Glad I'm hitched already!"

And then I said:

"Grumpy, you should never have traded your wife for a hamburger!"

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Call me crazy ,But when you see how delicate the current system (electricity , food and fuel ) is and how easily it can all stop or just plain run out with the local grocery store only having a 3 day supply and fuel a day or two and when one tree falling can take out your power ,Why would you not have some other way to provide for yourself other than waiting for someone else to come running and take care of the problem for you ? What if they are to busy taking care of themselves ? What would you do ? your going to have a problem hunting with the 9mm you keep in the house and after the 1 box of shells you keep is gone then what ? and how long are you going to wait for help to show up ? How long before your ideals are overcome by hunger ? or just heat? and shelter ?....I was in Homestead Florida when hurricane Andrew came thruin1992 and the devastation was bad people did not have anything to eat drink or a place to stay .I volunteered to work with the Special Operations Response Team and we set up in the Homestead senior activity building ,it survived because it was built as a hurricane proof building and it worked , there were no electricity no water and no sewer systems running . within hours of the storm passing the looting started and they stole everything from bread to motor homes that where still on the lot, the first day we delt with injuries from the storm by the end of the second day we were dealing with the domestic abuse cases due to stress from the men not able to help their own families ,by the third day they were shooting at the helicopters and that's when the disientary cases started showing up from people drinking contaminated water not realizing they could have been drinking from their water heaters , These are all people who had a weeks notice the storm was on the way no one was ready for how bad it could be and figured they would ride it out and not prepare themselves ,and it took weeks before it was even some sense of normal .What would you do if you had to take care of yourself and your family for weeks with no help ?

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

I think you missed it. My comment was based on this statement:

those unprepaired won't...

those unpre pair ed won't...

Dave said:

"Glad I'm hitched already!"

And then I said:

"Grumpy, you should never have traded your wife for a hamburger!"

OK, I GOT IT ! some times it takes a few cups of coffee !

 

[Rob-D]

A still is the best water separation device. Double distilled is the water they use in science experiments and is pretty much just h2o

Maybe but it takes out the minerals and the water tastes horrible and makes rancid tasting bread!

 

[Rob-D]

homedistiller.org has some nice plans

Emergency Water Kit has the same ceramic filters that the berkley has but you put them in a 5 gallon plastic bucket and save bout 200.00 over the berkley.
Pool shock is also useful.


As far as people not being fully self sufficent. I would think that if you were able to model your situation on a monastary, you might get really close to being self sufficent. Some monastarys are self-supporting meaning they trade for things they need, which after (I Feel) an event is what most places will gravitate to.(I hope).
"Whenever possible the monastery should be laid out so that everything essential, that is to say water, mills, garden and workshops for the plying of the various crafts, is found within the monastery walls."
Monastery Gardens: Ancient Herbal Folklore - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com
Its a lot of old "tech" that you would need, but if you had the time and drive it could be done.

Good info!
I wonder how it compares to the Berkey as far as element removal? Trouble with these things is they don't remove bacteria That's why I like the UV with prefilters (5 and 1 micron).

 

[mjarrels]

I've been watching doom day preppers the last few days on TV. They still relay on fuel being available, many have spent up to $300,000 on food supplies, weapons, ammo and shelters. If you live in a urban area, pretty much doomed IMHO. Eight or ten lanes of traffic in major cities are going to be huge parking lots.

mark

 

[Rob-D]

Call me crazy ,But when you see how delicate the current system (electricity , food and fuel ) is and how easily it can all stop or just plain run out with the local grocery store only having a 3 day supply and fuel a day or two and when one tree falling can take out your power

OK, I'll say it again, money isn't power, land is power and the knowledge to function and utilize land is the best security you can have. Sure a storm can overwhelm you but chances are it will pass or it will hit only partially. If you've used the land to grow food that you've stored and have stores of water you have a much better chance of survival. Crowded areas, the suburbs, etc. will have a real challenge trying to survive and probably won't.
Once people stealing TV, RV, etc. realize they have no energy to run them their value will drop and looting will go to human needs.

There was a smart guy named Abe Maslow and he addressed human needs:

"Maslow's hierarchy of needs:

Each of us is motivated by needs. Our most basic needs are inborn, having evolved over tens of thousands of years. Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs helps to explain how these needs motivate us all.

Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs states that we must satisfy each need in turn, starting with the first, which deals with the most obvious needs for survival itself.

Only when the lower order needs of physical and emotional well-being are satisfied are we concerned with the higher order needs of influence and personal development.

Conversely, if the things that satisfy our lower order needs are swept away, we are no longer concerned about the maintenance of our higher order needs.

Maslow's original Hierarchy of Needs model was developed between 1943-1954, and first widely published in Motivation and Personality in 1954. At this time the Hierarchy of Needs model comprised five needs. This original version remains for most people the definitive Hierarchy of Needs."


Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and diagrams of Maslow's motivational theory - pyramid diagrams of Maslow's theory

 

[Rob-D]

I've been watching doom day preppers the last few days on TV. They still relay on fuel being available, many have spent up to $300,000 on food supplies, weapons, ammo and shelters. If you live in a urban area, pretty much doomed IMHO. Eight or ten lanes of traffic in major cities are going to be huge parking lots.

mark

With people shooting each other with those guns and ammo!

 

[3930dave]

Addiction: " the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma."

Most of us have spent most of our lives living in a society addicted to oil. That one is pretty obvious.

Doing some extended driving lately, I was listening to talk radio - Oxycontin was being debated, as the original patent is expiring, opening up generic sales. Any chance big Pharma didn't know what would happen when this drug was originally developed ? Rhetorical question.

I was at a college open-house recently. Ended up discussing manual sketching with the program coordinator in the Architecture program. Forget sketching, he said most young students literally did not know how to hold a pencil.

Many people (less so, probably, for the typical TBN'er) would go into withdrawal if their cell phone/service was taken away.

As Grumpy has well described, there are corporations doing a very good job of addicting people to all sorts of products and services. Serves the corporations well. Us ? - good question, esp. in the long term. Unfortunately, Long Term thinking is about as common as White Rhinos.

Living in a society (Canada) where many people are too lazy to get out of the car to get a cup of coffee (and no, we don't actually have snow drifts 11 months/year), I'd say the vector we are on (as a society) needs work.

Rgds, D.