Neighbor removed my property line pin

[TCBoomer]

Holy Moly, I would love to mow grass that nice!

There's almost 3 acres of it...can I expect you to be here next spring to mow it for me?:laughing:

 

[Cat_Driver]

If you ignore it the neighbor can claim that property in some states. He can say he has been taking care of it for years and as a squatter can take it

 

[JD 4520]

TCB - perhaps we have the same neighbor. I have had it done twice and now I have concreted 4x4 posts in place of such. Won't happen again. I don't get people like this.

 

[JD 4520]

I have very little sympathy for those who build near a property line without surveying first. When I built a fence around my property, I bit the bullet and paid $600 to have my place surveyed. Every pin was where it was supposed to be, but my neighbor had hinted that he thought a previous owner had moved some of the pins, and I wasn't about to take a chance of him arguing with me in the future. I understand that neighborly peace can be a more important principle than the property line itself, so I'm not questioning your decision to let it slide, but I have also seen too many of these cases where a person's generosity with regard to property rights turned out to be his undoing. I hope that you don't become one of them.

A fence makes for great neighbors. No one argues where the line is.

 

[MBTRAC]

Property boundaries & fence lines are always a potential cause of major neighbour disputes.
I have found through bitter experience ,in the long run it pays to get the boundaries sorted & defined ASAP irrepective of any short term angst that may be created.
Over here (Australia) in some States there are several recent legal precedents which have seen addtional land "acquired"/property boundaries redefined because a property owner innocently without understanding the ramifications,has in the law's "eye's" willingly allowed their neighbour to access/use land for some years free of charge .......can't recall the exact legal term but it is something along the lines of "land acquired through abandoned occupancy"....
IMO - I'd be seeking legal advice specific to your area as the your neighbours underground phone line probably consistutes a potential "easement" on your land & may be the cause for dissent, devaluation &/or limitations on that use of your land in the future...

 

[TCBoomer]

If you ignore it the neighbor can claim that property in some states. He can say he has been taking care of it for years and as a squatter can take it

He actually WAS taking care of some of my property prior to the survey. If he wanted to claim it I'm sure he would have tried after the survey was done. Adverse possession in CT is 15yrs. Prior to the survey and trees, it was open space and we both mowed up to the approx property line. The arborvitaes there now are planted 3' inside the line and have already reached the 2' mark. I'd like to keep them at a 2' spread but may let them go the full 3' to the property line. The missing pin was at the 3' mark

 

[TCBoomer]

IMO - I'd be seeking legal advice specific to your area as the your neighbours underground phone line probably consistutes a potential "easement" on your land & may be the cause for dissent, devaluation &/or limitations on that use of your land in the future...

You bring up another valid point and one I thought of once or twice. In fact I'm surprised the surveyor I hired didn't say anything when the pin was set next to the phone line riser. The neighbors underground phone line is buried on the property line (about 400' worth of mine) or maybe an inch inside give or take. No easement mentioned in the deed. Doesn't really bother me but like the missing pin, maybe I should look into that as well?

 

[Brad_Blazer]

If you know the location of the corner within an inch or 2 install a steel pin there for your reference. Drive it an inch below ground level and don't say anything about it. Galvanized ground rod will last along time.

 

[biker4jc]

Well here goes. The neighbor may have moved the pin, or not. Thing is whoever moved it saw it there and knew you went to some expense to get it there. If that same someone sees the surveyor out again and sees the pin replaced they're going to see that you're determined to have the pin there and may give up. I'm not sure how it is where you are, but here surveyor pins are steel pins driven just below ground level and are stamped with a number. Removing them is considered some kind of criminal offense. Perhaps a deer camera could help clear it up?

 

[MBTRAC]

You bring up another valid point and one I thought of once or twice. In fact I'm surprised the surveyor I hired didn't say anything when the pin was set next to the phone line riser. The neighbors underground phone line is buried on the property line (about 400' worth of mine) or maybe an inch inside give or take. No easement mentioned in the deed. Doesn't really bother me but like the missing pin, maybe I should look into that as well?

If the boundaries are ever fenced that's going make it a real pain.............

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I think property line disputes are the most popular topic on TBN. I'd have the surveyor put one back in. When I was building my house the excavator took out one of my corner pins. I paid for the original surveyor to put it back.

 

[schmism]

the survey company my wife used to work for would come back and relocate a "missing" corner post if he did the org survey. He would then notify the neighbor that the pin has be replaced, and include the text for the state law indicating it was illegal to remove survey pins.

have it put back, drive a 4 or 6' lengh of 1" rebar next to it. use a standard offset 5' on your side of the property line and drive a second.

 

[Redbug]

the survey company my wife used to work for would come back and relocate a "missing" corner post if he did the org survey. He would then notify the neighbor that the pin has be replaced, and include the text for the state law indicating it was illegal to remove survey pins.

have it put back, drive a 4 or 6' lengh of 1" rebar next to it. use a standard offset 5' on your side of the property line and drive a second.

Good advise.

And I am sitting in my armchair...

 

[henrybuchanan]

Use 8' mining roof bolts and drive them 6' deep head first. It's a hard drive, but you can't pull it out, you would have to dig it out like a tree stump.

 

[J_J]

I had a similar problem.

My new neighbor thought his survey was more correct.

For the last 20 years the property line on my side of a 40 acre parcel was a straight line for 1024 ft.

After they divided the parcel in 4 ten acre lots, the straight line somehow became a zigzag line with great variations.

I was ordered to meet with him for an arbitration, where home owners can state their disagreements/claim.

After presenting a copy of the original survey, and pictures of the marker, he had to swallow his pride and acknowledge the facts.

He did, however pay a surveyor to check out that straight line.

I watched him and the survey crew recheck the straight line.

I then set the stamped marker in a 4 ft cement casing showing the surveyors stamp just below the surface.

I can find all my markers using a Subsurface yellow metal detector.

I would keep that marker flagged at all times.

http://www.geotechenv.com/pdf/field_supplies/magnetic_locators.pdf

 

[homedad]

Man this must be a suburban thing. None of my neighbors have fences or arguments. Domestic tranquility is priceless. Most of our pins are gone due to overgrowth or freeze/thaw movement. They were all recorded with the county as well as the township.

 

[dmccarty]

In NC it is a crime to mess with a marker. The problem is you have no proof on who moved the marker so there is nobody to charge.

I would talk to a lawyer about the utilities on your property. We have talked to many lawyers over the years for advice and never paid a cent. We asked to pay but they would not bill for the few minutes of time we used. I am guessing a half dozen lawyers have not charged us. Their opinion was certainly worth us paying but they would not send a bill. :confused3: The utilities on your land with out an easement would bother me.

What is to be gained by talking to the neighbor? If you have not read MDBARB's long running discussion with his easement dispute, a case he lost in court which cost him a bunch of money, I would encourage you to at least skim that discussion and tread lightly with the neighbor.

I might have the surveyor replace the pin but do you need to know the exact line at the moment? I would hem and haw on this one especially if I had to spend money to replace the pin. I put T posts near some of our corner markers. Someone stole the T Posts. When I have time, I will go back and put in rebar in the ground and set some wood posts. The pins are still in place but someone wanted the T posts.

Later,
Dan

 

[sdkubota]

The legal term is "adverse possession" and is very real and puts you in danger of losing the disputed property. Maybe not disputed now but someday...

Have the survey pin reset and ask for an additional pin placed below the top pin (pounds one on top of another). It is typically done where property will be farmed and there is a good chance the top pin gets destroyed during farming operations. You could also set a wooden post alongside the property pin so there would be no benefit in removing the actual pin again. Call the original surveyor and give him time to piggy back it when he is in the area to save on travel costs.

And yes it is illegal to remove survey pins in any state. I would openly ask the neighbor if he removed the pin then mention the law and ramifications.

 

[dodge man]

I am a land surveyor, and I've read some ideas in this post that are both good and bad. My opinion is I wouldn't worry to much about adverse possession in this case. He saw the survey marker, you talked to him about it, and this puts him on notice that you know where the line is.

I wouldn't drive anything near the corner yourself. You might know roughly where the corner is, but not exactly. Don't offset the corner either. There is always a chance someone might think its the real corner.

Talk to your surveyor, he will probably reset the corner at a fair price since the original survey isn't that old. If I think there is a problem with someone removing one of my pins, I drive a corner down deeper, say about 12", then set another one on top of it. The person will pull the top pin, but not know the lower one is there.

Last of all, you are correct, don't mess with lawyers yet. You can't prove he pulled the pin, and if you get a lawyer involved, things have a way of escalating in a hurry.

 

[JerryK]

I'm with the re-survey the corner, then drive a long rebar next to it folks. Even if he pulled it, a kid walking down the road yanked it to scratch his back, or it came out via the phone line guy... it doesn't really matter. Put it back in and keep an eye on it... If you drive in another rebar, drive it six inches under ground level so you can find it with a metal detector. That way, you will know it is there a he might not, for if there is a 'next time'.