Outrage after NY paper publishes names of gun permit holders

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   / Outrage after NY paper publishes names of gun permit holders #211  
Many keep ignoring the 2nd Amendment is not the only thing guaranteeing the right to bear arms as many states including mine contain such recognition of rights absent any reference to a militia: "Section 23. That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or when lawfully summoned in aid of the civil power, shall not be questioned; but this shall not justify the wearing of concealed weapons."

Good point. Sure, states can make laws regulating the carrying of weapons. That is all I am talking about. I don't want a ban on all guns, just on certain types.
 
   / Outrage after NY paper publishes names of gun permit holders #212  
You think our Second Amendment would have prevented those?? How?

****** was elected and legitimate head of the government. The Second Amendment says the CIC is the Head of the militia in our constitution so the "militia" in pre war Germany would have reported to ****** ( just like the Brown Shirts did....oh wait, the Brown Shirts were a well regulated militia used by ****** to accomplish his goals).

Lenin...revolutionary, not likely to have been controlled by a militia unless the militia was working for the czar who was hardly a proponent of democracy. So Lenin doesn't really count as he overthrew a tyrant himself.

Stalin. Yep, a true tyrant. But I cannot imagine how a militia would have stood up to him. His secret police were so effective at killing leaders of any resistance group that the militia wouldn't have come close to organizing an effective response.

Today in the USA a militia would, as the US Navy used to say about the Cold War Russian Navy, "have a short but exciting life" in the event of hostilities. How would you like to go one on one with your AR15 against a Predator or AC130 or M1A1??? Would your high capacity magazine help defend you against cluster munitions or napalm? How are you going to organize your militia while the boys at Ft Meade monitor every communication? The militia may well have been a viable counter force in colonial times given it had virtually the same weapons as a standing professional army but that is clearly no longer the case. I would much rather depend on the First rather than the Second amendment to preserve our democracy. And, guess what, it works!

Have you not been paying attention to uprisings against the military in several countries around the world? How did Afgan civilians run Russia out and why can the worlds greatest superpower not prevail there?
 
   / Outrage after NY paper publishes names of gun permit holders #213  
Most of us were taught respect for the law and we've seen what happens when that respect breaks down. Kent State is a vivid memory for me. .
That WAS the militia! The history of the militia outside the national guard in this country is pathetic. Read about it. Union busting, lynchings etc etc. There frankly hasn't been an important or successful use of the militia since the Whiskey Rebellion in the 1790's.
 
   / Outrage after NY paper publishes names of gun permit holders #214  
Good point. Sure, states can make laws regulating the carrying of weapons. That is all I am talking about. I don't want a ban on all guns, just on certain types.

I am old enough to remember when the call was "only to eliminate the Saturday Night Special", we aren't after...we don't want to make...illegal...we just want to...darned slippery slope I don't want to get caught on. Do some research on the incrementalism in other countries that have led to the outright ban on many weapons and all but elimination of a right to have just about any kind of firearm. Also refer to my link on Australia and the "knife problem". Sorry, but I am not signing onto the "well that sounds reasonable, I'll just go along with that, I trust them, they said they didn't want to..."
 
   / Outrage after NY paper publishes names of gun permit holders #215  
Same way I feel when I hear the letters AMA. Although I'm certain Doc IslandTractor is one of the more responsible prescription pad owners.

No, I hate the AMA. It's just a self serving union for doctors. Very little in the way of leadership over the years as our healthcare system helped bankrupt the country. Nogoodnicks as far as I'm concerned (but not as bad as the NRA!!!)
 
   / Outrage after NY paper publishes names of gun permit holders #216  
[I]I'm not sure I get the point of your post. You mention hunting, but none of the research I have done mentions hunting in connection with the US or our State Constitution. I am also uncomfortable with the phrases " do they give" and "proven need" which sound inconsistent with a constitutionally guaranteed "right". [/I]

Probably because I rambled as usual.
I understand your point, and have no desire to diminish those guaranteed rights. Many people died to get those rights taken for granted.
 
   / Outrage after NY paper publishes names of gun permit holders #217  
Strict gun laws in Great Britain and Australia haven't made their people noticeably safer, nor have they prevented massacres. The two major countries held up as models for the U.S. don't provide much evidence that strict gun laws will solve our problems. Statistics can be manipulated to just about anyone's favor, but while there haven't been any large massacres in Australia since their gun control implementation, overall deaths by guns hasn't decreased that much and Britain has gotten to the point where about the only non police persons who have guns are criminals that aren't afraid to use them, that's why a lot of the Bobbies are now armed, some with automatic weapons, around the airports and subways.

The Libs want to crucify guns when the problem lies with people. Mentally unstable people don't care how they get guns, they care who they kill with them and it's pretty much decided that they don't care what happens after they use them, seems a lot of them simply decide to kill themselves rather than be caught by the police. It's a damned shame they just didn't take the last step first.
I was a Deputy Sheriff for several years. During that time, I transported at least 100 people (and this is a small county) on MIWs (Mental Inquisition Warrants), signed by a judge and which ordered me to take these people for a mental evaluation. These MIWs were granted because some family member went to the County Attorney and convinced them that the person was exhibiting signs that they may be a potential danger to themselves or someone else. Somewhere along the line, someone had determined that unless overwhelming proof could be determined by the examining facility, these people could only be held for 72 hours, then returned home. I've talked to Deputies from three other states and theirs are the same way. Several of these people I transported two and three times during my stint. Two that I know of bought firearms at some point after their MIW, one bought a rifle, the other a handgun. I had to literally rip the rifle from the guys hands because he said he wasn't going back. All these people had to do to buy those guns was lie to that one little question, 11f, on the Form 4473 and they got through the NICS checks!!!!!

With all the technology we have today, it would be very easy for those mental evaluation facilities to make some type of entry under that person's SSAN to the fact that they had, if nothing else, been evaluated for a potential mental problem, then there could be a "let's check into this a little more" button pop up at the NICS, maybe precluding that individual from getting the firearm legally. As it stands right now, they can't do that because of the health privacy act.

True, a lot of the weapons are obtained illegally, but we need to enforce the laws we have on the books right now, not enact new laws and I don't know if the Federal Government is the right way to go. How's the war on drugs going? The war on poverty? For any success in any of those two areas you can name, I can give multiple numbers of failures.

I love how; the Hollywood celebrities are crying over the latest massacre, and plan on doing a video about gun violence. Well, I cry over the massacre too and I deplore unnecessary violence, but those people make their living for a large part by starring in movies with gun violence. They say it's just acting, but they're making money from it and because they're stars, the public does the sheep thing and falls for their spiel. The majority of the big stars and politicians have armed bodyguards with them all the time, a large majority of the send their kids to private schools with armed security, but that's alright, because they're special and since they don't own the guns themselves, they're absolved an are able to loudly proclaim their distaste for firearms. ****, the simple fact that so many people listen and fall in with their spouting makes me want to puke, they're actors for God's sake, they know how to play a crowd!

Attack the problem, not the tool
 
   / Outrage after NY paper publishes names of gun permit holders #218  
I am old enough to remember when the call was "only to eliminate the Saturday Night Special", we aren't after...we don't want to make...illegal...we just want to...darned slippery slope I don't want to get caught on. Do some research on the incrementalism in other countries that have led to the outright ban on many weapons and all but elimination of a right to have just about any kind of firearm. Also refer to my link on Australia and the "knife problem". Sorry, but I am not signing onto the "well that sounds reasonable, I'll just go along with that, I trust them, they said they didn't want to..."

TripleR -- You're right...they take baby steps...little by little the guns can be gone..just like was done with cigarette smoking...first it was certain areas in restaurants, airplanes then at work, then public buildings, then not at all in public buildings , then not in your own home, then not in parks or outside of public buildings....

I am not a smoke just using that as an example for the incremental-ism you mentioned...to show how it has happened and is once again under way....except to take away the guns...to disarm the public.
 
   / Outrage after NY paper publishes names of gun permit holders #219  
Have you not been paying attention to uprisings against the military in several countries around the world? How did Afgan civilians run Russia out and why can the worlds greatest superpower not prevail there?

With Stinger missiles from the USA. Without those the Ruskies would still be there. Modern high tech weapons trump militias in the absence of outside support.

But as you brought it up, the competing warlord militias in Afghanistan are probably the best you could hope for with lack of central command and control of a militia in the USA.
 
   / Outrage after NY paper publishes names of gun permit holders #220  
[I]I'm not sure I get the point of your post. You mention hunting, but none of the research I have done mentions hunting in connection with the US or our State Constitution. I am also uncomfortable with the phrases " do they give" and "proven need" which sound inconsistent with a constitutionally guaranteed "right". [/I]

Probably because I rambled as usual.
I understand your point, and have no desire to diminish those guaranteed rights. Many people died to get those rights taken for granted.

I tend to ramble too; sometimes even forget my main point by the time I finish; at least it amuses my family if nothing else.:eek:
 
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