Outrage after NY paper publishes names of gun permit holders

[hosspuller]

Good point. Sure, states can make laws regulating the carrying of weapons. That is all I am talking about. I don't want a ban on all guns, just on certain types.

IT ... what type of guns are you thinking of? Semiautomatic? High capacity magazines? bayonet lugged? black?

If you say ban semiautomatic guns ... almost all guns are semiautomatic. You mean to ban all guns. "semiautomatic" & assault rifle" are just code words to sway the ignorant, low information voter.

The only exceptions would be muzzle loaders, revolvers, & pump shot guns.

 

[IslandTractor]

IT ... what type of guns are you thinking of? Semiautomatic? High capacity magazines? bayonet lugged? black?

If you say ban semiautomatic guns ... almost all guns are semiautomatic. You mean to ban all guns. "semiautomatic" & assault rifle" are just code words to sway the ignorant, low information voter.

The only exceptions would be muzzle loaders, revolvers, & pump shot guns.

While I appreciate the challenge in precisely defining rapid fire weapons, it doesn't seem like an impossible thing to do. If necessary just say that only single shot rifles are OK for general use and make other types more restrictive like the Aussies and Brits do. If you own a farm with a coyote problem you could qualify for a rapid fire weapon. Something like that.

Other countries have managed to do it. Not rocket science.

 

[brin]

While I appreciate the challenge in precisely defining rapid fire weapons, it doesn't seem like an impossible thing to do. If necessary just say that only single shot rifles are OK for general use and make other types more restrictive like the Aussies and Brits do. If you own a farm with a coyote problem you could qualify for a rapid fire weapon. Something like that.

Other countries have managed to do it. Not rocket science.

In a perfect world that would be great, however, in the US there are hundreds of millions of firearms, so many that confiscation or eradication of them would be impossible. So even with honest , law abiding citizens turning in their weapons...all of them and the police kicking in doors to try and find the rest ...the criminal element will still always have semi and fully automatic weapons..so all that would be accomplished would be to prevent honest folks from having firepower equal to what a criminal might attack them with... Has the gun crime gone down in Chicago or NY city where they have long standing gun bans...?

 

[RadarTech]

In a perfect world that would be great, however, in the US there are hundreds of millions of firearms, so many that confiscation or eradication of them would be impossible. So even with honest , law abiding citizens turning in their weapons...all of them and the police kicking in doors to try and find the rest ...the criminal element will still always have semi and fully automatic weapons..so all that would be accomplished would be to prevent honest folks from having firepower equal to what a criminal might attack them with... Has the gun crime gone down in Chicago or NY city where they have long standing gun bans...?

Exactly.... I think this exact statement has played out in every discussion I've seen.....
And I agree. Why punish the honest person as we will never get all the guns from the criminals....

 

[kenmac]

I,ve got 1 you'll love Island Tractor. My state is talking about passing a law that will make my state ( which is already an open carry state) from may issue cc to shall issue cc. :cool2on't you just love it ? I sure do.:thumbsup: Island, No matter how much you talk against gun rights, You will never change the minds of pro gun rights If you want to be like the Aussies and Brits. Why not see if you can find you a place there. I sure not all of them like their gun laws

this is what happened in my state today. My son is a Fireman/ Medic. My son & myself still wouldn't go along with a gun ban. You can't hurt every body for a bad few ! Ever heard the saying,,, a few bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch ??

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2012/12/hoover_man_charged_with_attemp.html#incart_river_default .

 

[IslandTractor]

In a perfect world that would be great, however, in the US there are hundreds of millions of firearms, so many that confiscation or eradication of them would be impossible. So even with honest , law abiding citizens turning in their weapons...all of them and the police kicking in doors to try and find the rest ...the criminal element will still always have semi and fully automatic weapons..so all that would be accomplished would be to prevent honest folks from having firepower equal to what a criminal might attack them with... Has the gun crime gone down in Chicago or NY city where they have long standing gun bans...?

I agree. It would be tough to do but that by itself is no reason to throw up our hands.

The criminal element argument is a very emotional one but I haven't seen data that shows how criminals are using or deterred by rapid fire rifles. Lots of hype and some anecdotes but I've never seen a FBI report on this issue. I am about as likely to trust the NRA on this as you are to trust Nancy Pilosi.

Chicago and other urban gun crime is overwhelmingly youth on youth or criminal on criminal so I don't know that adverse effect gun control efforts would have on the rest of us even if some did not turn in restricted weapons.

 

[IslandTractor]

I,ve got 1 you'll love Island Tractor. My state is talking about passing a law that will make my state ( which is already an open carry state) from may issue cc to shall issue cc. :cool2on't you just love it ? I sure do.:thumbsup: Island, No matter how much you talk against gun rights, You will never change the minds of pro gun rights If you want to be like the Aussies and Brits. Why not see if you can find you a place there. I sure not all of them like their gun laws

this is what happened in my state today. My son is a Fireman/ Medic. My son & myself still wouldn't go along with a gun ban. You can't hurt every body for a bad few ! Ever heard the saying,,, a few bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch ??

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2012/12/hoover_man_charged_with_attemp.html#incart_river_default .

I enjoy debating the issue with my TBN buddies but don't think for a minute that you will change your minds. You represent a very conservative portion of our population so I would expect you to remain stalwart gun "nuts" (joke alert). However you are mostly to the right of the rest of our population so the laws that do get written on this issue will certainly be somewhere in between what you would want or, on the other side what I would want. While I would prefer an Aussie type law, I'd settle for something between that and what we have now so long as it had teeth and was likely to lower the odds of some nutcase getting his hands on a rapid fire weapon and a few hundred rounds of ammo.

 

[Car Doc]

The whole guns are bad "language" is just so ridiculously flawed its the same as saying being overweight is caused by spoons and flies cause garbage and pencils misspell words and umbrellas cause rain etc. :laughing:

 

[TripleR]

I agree. It would be tough to do but that by itself is no reason to throw up our hands.

The criminal element argument is a very emotional one but I haven't seen data that shows how criminals are using or deterred by rapid fire rifles. Lots of hype and some anecdotes but I've never seen a FBI report on this issue. I am about as likely to trust the NRA on this as you are to trust Nancy Pilosi.

Chicago and other urban gun crime is overwhelmingly youth on youth or criminal on criminal so I don't know that adverse effect gun control efforts would have on the rest of us even if some did not turn in restricted weapons.

And you likely won't, no one can really come up with a specific definition on which everyone can agree. I use to keep up with Law Enforcement Officers killed in the line of duty and even the data on that is limited to handgun, rifle and shotgun. "Weapons: Offenders used firearms to kill 55 of the 56 victim officers. Of these 55 officers, 38 were slain with handguns, 15 with rifles, and two with shotguns. One officer was killed with a vehicle used as a weapon."

I have tried in the past to find data you mentioned, but didn't have any luck, if you do, please post as I am genuinely interested, my information might be outdated.

 

[MossRoad]

I get more enjoyment out of .22 rimfire and it is dirt cheap to shoot. A 50 round clip on a Ruger 10/22 is a hoot. So is long range plinking with a nice single shot .22 with peep sights or a scope.

This brings back good memories, likely to a great many of us. I grew up on a 116 acre farm, much of which was deep woods, on the PA side of the Delaware River. We had about five logging trails back into various parts of the woods, to
access the seven cord of wood we cut each year. And at the end of one of those trails was the dump. Now dumps aren't legal any more for many good reasons, but this dump had been there a long, long time. Nothing nasty, but some old porcelain appliances that were fun to blast away at, and of course, how many glass bottles could you line up in a row and get them all with one shot? Single shot 22 back then. And we learned to clean it every time we used it. Loved the smell of the gun cleaning oil.

But give a kid a box or two of 22 shorts, and man what a way to spend an afternoon.

And now it gets a little unusual. I'm a life long pacifist. I will try to do everything possible before shooting or injuring another human being, even if I put myself at more risk doing so, within reason.
But I will defend myself, and my family. And if the boogeymen from Mars show up, ok, then too. My wife's father gave us/her a 12 gauge pump which is in the closet, with shells nearby, and also in that closet
is a really nice 22 LR with a scope more expensive than the rifle. I'm nearsighted, so sighting that scope and seeing everything clearly is a real joy. And I'm a pretty accurate shot.
But I don't hunt animals, a previous wife just knew I liked guns and gave me the rifle for Christmas.

Strange, to like guns, and be a pacifist. I've shot a 1911 45, man what a cannon, and a 38 revolver (nice to have the chief of police there...) but handguns are pretty scary to me. Would never own one, since they
are (and yes I understand hunters need a backup weapon) simply agents of human misery. Protection to many, life and family wreckers to more. But that's because of the violent society we live in, not the guns.
I understand a shotgun for home defense. I hope I never have to use ours, and likely won't. But I promised my wife's father when I asked for her hand to protect her, and I will, however imperfectly.

I live in a state that apparently doesn't care what I have in the closet. But then I'm a normal tax paying, law abiding citizen.
But I can see a day when there is a knock on the door and someone holding a big printout in uniform will be there to collect my shotgun and rifle.
Why, to protect my paper targets? No, like Prohibition or Sharia Law, someone thinks they know what's best for me, and are going to force their will on me.

I found out a few years back through research that fifteen members of my very extended family wound up in the ovens at Belzec. A whole "township" full of Augenblicks rounded up
and shipped off in the train cars to their death. Never again. I may be a pacifist, but I'm not getting in that railroad car.
This stuff happens, we need to remember the depths of depravity and psychopathic mental illness our species is capable of.

So you want to print my name in some big list and publish it? Not sure this meets any reasonable public need that could not be achieved in more private ways.
Geez, are you going to take my paper targets away too?
Instead of taking my guns, how about making gun locks available for free? Now that would be sensible public policy.

Very touching post. And thoughtful, too.

"Strange, to like guns, and be a pacifist."

Not really. My dad was a pacifist. Good Catholic man. Knights of Columbus. Wouldn't harm a fly. Drafted into WWII. combat engineering battalion. Became his battalion's firearms training officer. Had to set up and oversee the training in firearms of his entire battalion. Was certified trainer for many types of weapons. He was also the chemical weapons officer in charge of training for his battalion. Also became a demolitions expert. Got to blow up everything that needed blowing up. Served in the south Pacific. Came home alive. Kept a loaded .45 in his night stand. Taught me how to shoot it. Got me interested in rifles in Boy Scouts. Bought me my first rifle at about 15 years of age. I've told this story before... at the sporting goods store, the guy asks "You want that wrapped or are you going to carry it out?" I carried it out, walked down the sidewalk in downtown South Bend, Indiana carrying my rifle with my dad around the corner to our car. People looked at me and I could just imagine most of them saying to themselves "That boy got him is nice rifle!". That was 1976. How times have changed....