Smart Meter rant- technology going Backwards!

[Bird]

Just the beginning.........I read an article these smart readers will be able to tell the electric company which appliances are running and when they run. Will decide if your using to much electricity and soon enough they will be in control of when you can wash and dry your clothes. Just like the thermostats that can be controlled by the electric company.

I can go online and see a pie chart showing what the electric company claims is the amount of electricity used for:
Water Heating
Heating
Appliances
Refrigeration
Electronics
Lighting
Cooling

And of course, I have no idea how they can tell that, but I guess they can.

 

[3930dave]

My brother has A/C and maybe uses it one week a year... it was in the home when he bought it.

When the smart meter was going in the installer told him the Utility would pay him $25 if my brother would also have a utility controlled A/C switch installed at the same time.

My brother did and got his $25 credit.

Over the summer, there were a couple days of record heat... he calls me and says the A/C doesn't work and assumed it was the switch... after speaking with the Utility he learns it should be working some of the time..

I go and take a look and find the wire to his thermostat was disconnected... there was no way it was ever going to work...

Electric utilities are good at running Pipes in the Sky (power lines), as they should be. Implementing broad scale automation technology across millions of installations - Not so Much.

They do have to be good at sub-station/grid automation technology, but most of that is hardly cutting edge (nor would I want it to be..... CtrlAltDel is not what you need on a power grid). There are specialized techs that deal with this in-house utility technology, but it is rather narrow in focus, and evolves pretty slowly (again, a good thing, IMO). Those techs are just a tiny percentage of the total utility head count, so you can't just grab them and start rewiring houses in bulk.

I don't see load shedding at the household level as being easily implemented, nor all that effective.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

I can go online and see a pie chart showing what the electric company claims is the amount of electricity used for:
Water Heating
Heating
Appliances
Refrigeration
Electronics
Lighting
Cooling

And of course, I have no idea how they can tell that, but I guess they can.

With the right sensors in place, all that detail can be monitored - technically, it is not that hard to do. You may find this level of reporting in a modern industrial plant, or LEED certified building, but as far as I know, it's never been routinely installed at the residential level (Canada/USA).

I suspect these are just estimates from your utility Bird, perhaps put forth to help get people to accept Smart Meters.

Rgds, D.

 

[Bird]

I suspect these are just estimates from your utility Bird, perhaps put forth to help get people to accept Smart Meters.

Of course, I sure don't whether that's right or not, but I have no doubt at all that you know more about it than I do, and just estimates certainly wouldn't surprise me.

 

[The kid]

Just the beginning.........I read an article these smart readers will be able to tell the electric company which appliances are running and when they run. Will decide if your using to much electricity and soon enough they will be in control of when you can wash and dry your clothes. Just like the thermostats that can be controlled by the electric company.

This is a very expensive system to maintain by the utility. You probably read about a pilot program where the customers house was equipped with controllers and sensors wired to a CPU and downloaded on a regular basis. These pilot programs are usually voluntary and the customer gets a slight break if they abide by the TOU standard set by the utility. The term "smart meter" is very broad but usually used for "Time Of Use" billing. There are usually electronic my nature although there are electromechanical retrofits for residential use. A deemed smart meter cannot tell if the load is HVAC or a Water Heater without proper remote sensors wired throughout the home.

The whole benefit from "smart meters" load monitoring is to prevent power provider brown outs and conserve power is high populated areas where power is brought in over the nationwide power grid. If the home is smart wired. The utility can issue a command and turn your water heater off to shed load under an emergency situation. In all my years the utility I worked for never had to do that on commercial customers. we had that option available. They either comply or get severely penalized on their billing. This is a contracted agreement. Under extreme conservation measure these large industries if they did not comply the substation could shut them down remotely.

If the power company has the invested technology. They can read meters miles away from collection point thru "powerline carrier" which we have one on our house. It can record peek times here. These smart meters can record quite a bit of generic data. I was heavily involved with this technology before I retired both residential and commercial applications.

 

[KYErik]

I can go online and see a pie chart showing what the electric company claims is the amount of electricity used for:
Water Heating
Heating
Appliances
Refrigeration
Electronics
Lighting
Cooling

And of course, I have no idea how they can tell that, but I guess they can.

I can see how the power company could guesstimate these values based on time of day electrical usage and assuming that the person works a first shift job. It may assume that loads 5-7 pm are involved with cooking appliances (stove and dishwasher) and loads at 10pm and/or 7am are water heating after a shower. A load at 3am on a 70 degree day/50 degree night would likely be refrigeration. Loads from 7-10 pm may be electronics. The lighting one seems like it would be tough to guesstimate- unless it "sees" a small load increase at 6am that drops off at 8am and pops back up at sundown.

Technically, if they literally recorded/analyzed every second of your usage, they could probably determine what day you usually do laundry, what time you go to bed/get up, they could likely even tell when you are on vacation... Big brother is watching an ammeter...

 

[ultrarunner]

Neighbor was Plant Superintendent for a large industrial gas supplier.

They were one of the first with Load Shedding.

The offer from the Utility was too great to pass on.

They also did a lot of heavy power usage applications at night.

The savings were phenomenal too.

A few times they would get the call and have 15 minutes to shut down most processes.

The military also put in a rail line spir to the plant in the interest of national defense and stationed several rail cars there.

 

[Soundguy]

Maybe there were tractor thieves lurking, and she was just securing it ?

Even w/o horns, heavy animals can create a lot of equipment problems. One of the few times I saw my uncle pissed off was when I found the counter knocked off a baler - turns out the draft horses took a liking to rubbing against the baler.

Fun times ! Good memories, actually.

Rgds, D.

my horses like to bite and pull on things.

hoses.. buckets.. pails.. others halters.. etc..

 

[k0ua]

my horses like to bite and pull on things.

hoses.. buckets.. pails.. others halters.. etc..

wooden fences.....

 

[Bird]

my horses like to bite and pull on things.

hoses.. buckets.. pails.. others halters.. etc..

And me! I've only been bucked off once, only had a loose cinch let the saddle slip and dump me once, only been kicked once, but been bit more times than I could count.

 

[techwrtr2]

I can go online and see a pie chart showing what the electric company claims is the amount of electricity used for:
Water Heating
Heating
Appliances
Refrigeration
Electronics
Lighting
Cooling

And of course, I have no idea how they can tell that, but I guess they can.

I tend to suspect a measure of that is purely based on averages and not on you specifically. I have a smart meter and of course curiosity has forced me to log in and examine usage now and again. You can clearly see what time of day I get up for work as well as when I get home. You can see when I'm gone for the weekend or not.

However, they state that a certain portion of my electricity would be used for heat or domestic hot water.

I live in an apartment, my heat is coal fired hot water the electricity for which is paid by my landlord. Domestic hot water comes from the same boiler.

I've thought about buying one of those kill-a-watt things to get a real idea of how much my computer equipment draws... I have more of it than most folk.

 

[3930dave]

I tend to suspect a measure of that is purely based on averages and not on you specifically. I have a smart meter and of course curiosity has forced me to log in and examine usage now and again. You can clearly see what time of day I get up for work as well as when I get home. You can see when I'm gone for the weekend or not.

However, they state that a certain portion of my electricity would be used for heat or domestic hot water.

I live in an apartment, my heat is coal fired hot water the electricity for which is paid by my landlord. Domestic hot water comes from the same boiler.

I've thought about buying one of those kill-a-watt things to get a real idea of how much my computer equipment draws... I have more of it than most folk.

I imagine In Residence jumps out of the data pretty clearly. Remote surveillance is the issue that privacy advocates have against these smart meters.

Of course, the argument will be "If you aren't guilty, you have nothing to hide", when it comes to privacy. That never really washed with me, but practically speaking my issue with this is how this data is safeguarded. On the Nothing to Hide Front I have no concerns about utilities or law personnel looking at my data, I just have limited confidence in this information (even real time data) migrating into the hands of people that shouldn't have access to it.

For much the same reasons, I have no interest in loads in my house being remotely controlled by a utility.

Happy New Year,

Rgds, D.

 

[mistermcgoo]

Smart Meter Causes Dumb Fire | Threat Level | Wired.com

 

[Bird]

I have no interest in loads in my house being remotely controlled by a utility.

Me, neither. We don't even use the "programmable" feature of our thermostat. I'll turn it up or down myself when it needs it, which is very rarely.

 

[crazyal]

I've had a smart meter for years now (2006). At first they had to come up and read it from a short distance away. In the winter I could see tracks in the snow where they would drive along until they got a signal then slid to a stop to read it. After about a year they upgraded their system to read it remotely.

I once looked at the data showing what appliance used what but it was just a guess on their part. The meter can tell what sort of load is being used. For example if you turn your electric range on the meter knows that a 220 appliance has been turned on and it knows how much of a chance in current just happened. A dryer doesn't draw as much electricity as a range but more than a well pump. I would guess at some point in time appliances will each send a signal down the power line to the meter to identify itself to make monitoring more accurate but I have a feeling that most people may not be happy knowing that the power company (and sooner or later the government) will know your electrical habits.

 

[crazyal]

Me, neither. We don't even use the "programmable" feature of our thermostat. I'll turn it up or down myself when it needs it, which is very rarely.

The wood stove overrides mine so I never bothered setting them up.

 

[Pirate]

The wood stove overrides mine so I never bothered setting them up.

While sitting around during a power upgrade at the house, I talked to the power guys in detail about the smart meters. For now, they aren't doing much good, at least not the way they hope they will. It was explained to me that in the future the major appliances such as HVAC and water heat will have modules in them so they can be controlled through the smart meters. I am guess if the power load is real heavy during a certain period, they can then shut down x-amout of water heaters which in the end would make it cheaper as they wouldn't have to fire up the on-demand turbines and such.

 

[3930dave]

While sitting around during a power upgrade at the house, I talked to the power guys in detail about the smart meters. For now, they aren't doing much good, at least not the way they hope they will. It was explained to me that in the future the major appliances such as HVAC and water heat will have modules in them so they can be controlled through the smart meters. I am guess if the power load is real heavy during a certain period, they can then shut down x-amout of water heaters which in the end would make it cheaper as they wouldn't have to fire up the on-demand turbines and such.

What could go wrong, go wrong......

(obscure WestWorld reference...... )

Rgds, D.

 

[k0ua]

What could go wrong, go wrong......

(obscure WestWorld reference...... )

Rgds, D.

Oh, man.. you are really dating yourself there.

 

[3930dave]

Oh, man.. you are really dating yourself there.

Gettin' older..... beats the alternative !

Rdgs, D.