Any tricks to find an underground water leak?

[SPIKER]

Follow BIRDs advice use a 4 or6' T probe that you can push down along the pipe, then use a Mechanics Stethoscope and listen for the leak.

Search results for: 'mechanics stethascope'

one of these can be had for a few bucks on sale and you MAY be able to BARROW one thru Autozone/Advance Auto but not sure I would want a loaner tool in my ear... :x

Mark

 

[woody]

Mark, I was in the same situation as you I also have a back hoe and did the gate valves. I have about 1600 feet of one inch pvc and every leak I found was in a joint so figure out if you have 10 or 20 feet sections of pipe and find the joints you will probably find your leak in a joint.

 

[clemsonfor]

living here in upstate SC I can tell you that the ground is so wet that unless its really bbad you wond be able to tell where its leaking.

 

[sdkubota]

Thanks for the responses. I'll try to answer some of the questions asked. The meter is at the road and past the meter is my responsibility, no help from the water department. They did put the run in about 10 years ago for the previous owner. They ran white pvc in with glue joints the best I can tell. Not exactly sure where I could get a listening device in my area. Our usage is up by 3x the last two months and about 2x more than the summer peak usage when we do some garden watering. We have shut off the water at the house and the meter still says we are running water which should eliminate any elusive toilet issues or house issues. Not sure that probing or moister meters would help this time of year. We have had some rain at least once a week for the past two months and the ground is pretty saturated. The obvious places such as hydrants have been check without signs I can identify. We do pay a leak fee each month so some of it will be refunded when I can find the leak.

Right now I think my best approach is to start spitting line in section and installing a gate valve to isolate areas. Nothing like playing in the mud during the winter. The bad new is we have a good chance of rain every day for the next 7 days. The good news is I have a backhoe.

Any other ideas are welcome and thanks for the ones offered.

MarkV

Not sure of the white plastic line installed but often is oversized possible allowing you to shove a new one inside the old...jut a thought. I would also not install any additional fittings where you test except sleeves to repair the section cut out. Any connection is a potential problem. Also, if there is any sand/gravel deposits in your area a leak may never surface. Also 3 times the water usage is a tiny, tiny leak. Depending on your temperatures, waiting a month or two wouldn't be the end of the world and mayb allow a wet spot to surface.

 

[Deere Dude]

The obvious places such as hydrants have been check without signs I can identify.

MarkV

Do you have outside hydrants that have a shut off in the ground between the meter and the house. It would seem to me that would be a place to check. I have heard and seen pipes break by those and have seen them leak into the ground even though they work fine when operated. Just because it leaks 5-6' underground doesn't mean it will rise to the surface unless it is one heck of a gusher.

Anything other than on a straight run would be my first place to check. If it is a frost free stand alone hydrant maybe put your ear on it to check for noise in the ground from a water leak.

 

[JakeBrake]

No hints, but my experience with a leak. Several years ago we had rural property with water provided by a rural water association, which is a government welfare program. We owned the property when the system was first installed, so we got one of the initial connections. I ran a line from the meter to our proposed house site. That was about 300'. I used flexible black plastic pipe in 100' coils. I forget the name of the plastic. This stuff was later recalled and there were lots of lawsuits.

We were visiting the property about once a month. Between visits a leak developed. The line split in the middle of a section. The split was about 1' long. The leak soon created a mini-grand canyon. There was no problem finding the leak. The water association discovered the leak after a couple of weeks. They cut off the water at the meter. They had mercy on me and only charged for 40,000 gallons on the next bill.

I repaired the leak and after that I turned off the water at the meter after every visit. We never did build a house there.

 

[Dr Dave]

I would wait for better weather and get rid of the PVC pipe, there are to many fitting in 800' for leaks. You may have more than one leak, and more may occure in the future. Replace with PEX tubing, 300' roles are common, you can get in 500' or 1000' special order.

Dave

 

[sdkubota]

Mark, I was in the same situation as you I also have a back hoe and did the gate valves. I have about 1600 feet of one inch pvc and every leak I found was in a joint so figure out if you have 10 or 20 feet sections of pipe and find the joints you will probably find your leak in a joint.

Generally, white glued joint plastic pipe is 20' in length. Rural water might even be 40' lengths if they supplied the pipe.

 

[sdkubota]

I would wait for better weather and get rid of the PVC pipe, there are to many fitting in 800' for leaks. You may have more than one leak, and more may occure in the future. Replace with PEX tubing, 300' roles are common, you can get in 500' or 1000' special order.

Dave

I would disagree...if you replace it purchase a high quality coiled plastic pipe Scd 7 in as long of coils as possible.

 

[MarkV]

Well I sure hope not to replace the whole thing! The existing pipe is only 1" so I don't think running new pipe in it is a viable option. I'll start where the "T's" to the lateral runs are, I think I know there locations, and try to isolate it to a section. Gate valves would at least let me wait until dryer weather if it is on one of the lateral runs. If it is on the primary run I'll be playing in the mud. If anyone wants to come help I'll buy the refreshments and we have a washer and dryer for post project maintenance. :thumbsup:

Thanks all, I am off for the weekend and will check in tomorrow.

MarkV

 

[Dr Dave]

I would disagree...if you replace it purchase a high quality coiled plastic pipe Scd 7 in as long of coils as possible.

I have used the black plastic coiled pipe in the past, but is it still available? there have been many lawsuits involving it. Do you have another product in mind?

Dave

 

[EMB5530]

http://rwco.com/wp-content/uploads/Catalog-F.pdf

Prices on poly pipe by the foot

 

[Gary Fowler]

I would suggest checking with your local NDE contractor in the yellow pages might be under xrays or Non Destructive Testing. Ask them if they have an acoustic leak detector. Their rates might not be more than all the work you will be doing digging, breaking lines with the back hoe (if you are like me, one pass is not enough so go a little deeper and there is the line on the back hoe bucket). I have used NDE company to locate a leak in an underground line that was over 20 feet in the ground and he found it in less than 15 minutes with all kinds of welding machines, cranes etc running in the back ground. We pointed him out the general direction of the line which was a 24" with 100 PSI on it and he found a blown gasket where pipefitters had forgotten to snug up a flange for some future branch. This machine was just a little square box with a connection to put in some stainless steel probes similar to a gun cleaning kit. We told him the concrete coated pipe was in 20 foot joints, The guy walked about 20 feet put the probe in the ground and listened, then walked about 20 more. He claimed he could here a drip from a gasket (it was allowed some leakage on this cooling water line). After about 100 feet he stopped, moved the probe around a few times and finally said" your leak is directly below and its a blown gasket, I can hear it squealing. Pipefitters didnt believe him because the said it wasnt any below ground flanges in the system. I went to my office, pulled the drawings and sure enough there was a flange. Normally lines are tested prior to backfilling but this one had so much hole opened up because of the 4-1 slope required for safety at that depth the client agreed to visual inspection and back fill as the line was installed. Turned out to be a bad decision but we found the leak, fixed it and was back in business in one day. By the way it was pressure tested prior to backfilling the hole this time.
The guy walked the entire line and only found that one major leak, there were a few with a drip about every 30 seconds which was acceptable at test pressure and likley didnt leak at all at 25 PSI operating pressure.

 

[sdkubota]

I have used the black plastic coiled pipe in the past, but is it still available? there have been many lawsuits involving it. Do you have another product in mind?

Dave

No lawsuits with the Scd 7 (heavy) pipe and spec it and have it installed all the time. Copper has become much too expensive.

A leak of 1 pint per minute would equate to around 6,000 gallon per month. It would be luck but possible an acoustic detection device would work.

 

[kw22614]

Maybe, just a little past the meter on your property, dig a good size exploratory hole, cut the exiting pvc pipe and use a smaller diameter solid pipe, like used for wells, cap the end and feed it through the pvc ,connecting more as needed until you reach the house then use the necessary adapters at both ends to hook the water back up. I've helped do this before but it was with 2 1/2" pvc, it was a straight run, and it was only about 40'. Hope you can find it easily. Good luck!

 

[Clint S]

On a friends well water system I once pushed about 175 feet of coiled black 3/4" pipe through 1" worked like a charm. I ran my 1 inch water line inside 2 inch pvc so I replace it if necessary by just digging up one end.

 

[Bikewanderer]

White PVC with glue joints? Yikes!!

Rent a trencher and put in a large roll of the bruiser service line.

 

[sdkubota]

White PVC with glue joints? Yikes!!

Rent a trencher and put in a large roll of the bruiser service line.

South Dakota has probably thousands and thousands of miles of glues joint pvc pipe rural water system without any problems. Once iin awhile you might get a gopher biting into one but that is about it.

 

[PILOON]

If it a continuous run of PVC, I would say that the ovious leak spots would be at the ends, where the connections are made... But I doubt that they put in in one piece.... Sorry

Generally the runs are 300 ft but also be 200 depending on brands so maybe suspect joints at 100 ft intervals.
I have found that with the jubilee style clamps that the clamping screws corrode away after about 10 years in our soil and water.
While the clamps are SS the screws are not (otherwise they' strip when tensioned). For that reason municipal codes generally call for compression fittings for entry lines.

 

[PILOON]

No hints, but my experience with a leak. Several years ago we had rural property with water provided by a rural water association, which is a government welfare program. We owned the property when the system was first installed, so we got one of the initial connections. I ran a line from the meter to our proposed house site. That was about 300'. I used flexible black plastic pipe in 100' coils. I forget the name of the plastic. This stuff was later recalled and there were lots of lawsuits.

We were visiting the property about once a month. Between visits a leak developed. The line split in the middle of a section. The split was about 1' long. The leak soon created a mini-grand canyon. There was no problem finding the leak. The water association discovered the leak after a couple of weeks. They cut off the water at the meter. They had mercy on me and only charged for 40,000 gallons on the next bill.

I repaired the leak and after that I turned off the water at the meter after every visit. We never did build a house there.

That was " POLY B"