Care of Septic Tank

[mikehaugen]

for those of you that have the grey water go "elsewhere," where does it go. I had noticed that the toilets in my house go to their own septic pipe out the basement wall and everything else goes "elsewhere." I was never sure where it went, I can't find an outlet anywhere so it was always a bit puzzling. I assume that the garage drains to the same place, I have a floor drain and utility sink in the garage, and I have been noticing an odor coming from the utility sink drain lately. There for some reason is no trap in the drain pipe, and you can almost feel a "draft" of sewage smell coming from the drain some days. I am thinking in the spring I will investigate further. I have lived here for 4 years and haven't had the septic pumped yet, will probably due that as well in the spring. Maybe the septic guy can help me trace the drainage for the other pipes.

 

[teejk]

for those of you that have the grey water go "elsewhere," where does it go. I had noticed that the toilets in my house go to their own septic pipe out the basement wall and everything else goes "elsewhere." I was never sure where it went, I can't find an outlet anywhere so it was always a bit puzzling. I assume that the garage drains to the same place, I have a floor drain and utility sink in the garage, and I have been noticing an odor coming from the utility sink drain lately. There for some reason is no trap in the drain pipe, and you can almost feel a "draft" of sewage smell coming from the drain some days. I am thinking in the spring I will investigate further. I have lived here for 4 years and haven't had the septic pumped yet, will probably due that as well in the spring. Maybe the septic guy can help me trace the drainage for the other pipes.

"gray water" generally either bleeds out onto the ground or might go to a separate underground tank (used to be common to bury a 55 gal drum with holes). I don't know if it is legal anywhere but it is pretty common. If you are getting a "whiff" of sewer gas, you probably have a tank buried somewhere. Easy enough to add a P trap to the sink although it might operate slow without a vent. If they tied a garage floor drain into the same tank, your rental center has jack-hammers! In newer construction here, it is permissable to run a garage floor drain directly out if you use what is called a sand trap.

I can't speak for Illinois but you might want to inquire (on a "no-name basis") about whether your septic guy is required to report any violations he finds. Not telling you to violate but don't incriminate yourself for something you didn't do.

 

[mikehaugen]

I am a little confused by the "jack hammer" suggestion. Are you saying that it is bad for the floor drain to go to the same place as the rest of the grey water? I really have to get ambitious and start tracing these lines somehow, then see if I need to change anything. Does anyone have any experience with the underground water detectors that look like an antenna that are supposed to point in the direction of running water? Something like this... AMK Manufacturing Pipe Locator | Pipe Locators| Northern Tool + Equipment Are they worthwhile?

 

[teejk]

I am a little confused by the "jack hammer" suggestion. Are you saying that it is bad for the floor drain to go to the same place as the rest of the grey water? I really have to get ambitious and start tracing these lines somehow, then see if I need to change anything. Does anyone have any experience with the underground water detectors that look like an antenna that are supposed to point in the direction of running water? Something like this... AMK Manufacturing Pipe Locator | Pipe Locators| Northern Tool + Equipment Are they worthwhile?

sorry Mike...Checking for a garage floor trap is as easy as opening the surface cover and looking...if it looks like an elbow 6" (or so) down and has water in it, you have a trap. If no water, add some and see if it holds. If not then sounds like a "straight pipe". Where does it go???

I'm guessing that if you can smell something akin to sewer gas/stagnant water in the garage you have a buried tank somewhere. But it might be they kept the floor drain as a "french" drain apart from your gray water tank and the odor is coming solely from your sink. You'll know simply by using your nose at the drain (cheaper than any tool you can buy since you already own it!).

As an aside, it is very important to make sure all plumbing traps have water in them...sometimes little used lines can dry out.

As a further aside, I bought a house in NY years ago...neighbor apparently was running a "gray water" system because I sank up past my ankles in MY backyard and the smell was "foul". "Gray" was illegal there but common. Then one night he was pounding at the door complaining about where I was putting my trash can for collection (on my property but bugged him that he could see it). Bad move on his part because his attitude let me mention my backyard problem and that I was ready to call the town sanitation department to check it out to see if I needed to fix something.

 

[mikehaugen]

I know it has a trap, sort of a strange one at that. The top of the pipe has a round "trough" and the drain screen has a round rim on the bottom that sits inside of the trough. water can only get through the screen outside of the rim so must go through the trough to drain inside... kind of a radial trap if you will. My biggest question is where the drain goes from there, but as I said I will just have to investigate further- I doubt you can tell me. :laughing:

 

[ultrarunner]

Pulled the actual 1975 permit for my Septic and it reads "3-4 bedroom"

The country clerk had never seen one written that way...

My home has 4 bedrooms and a "Nursery"

The nursery is a good size room with a sink and lots of closet space... just doesn't have a window that opens... it is a fixed double pane panel of glass.

In my area... sand mounds with a mandatory service agreement are the new norm... it really pays to keep on top of an older working system because the new ones typically are a 50k commitment and requries power 24/7 and a supervising engineer to oversea the service contract...

I have my home rented to a nice couple... so two people and the occasional family visits in August...

 

[teejk]

I know it has a trap, sort of a strange one at that. The top of the pipe has a round "trough" and the drain screen has a round rim on the bottom that sits inside of the trough. water can only get through the screen outside of the rim so must go through the trough to drain inside... kind of a radial trap if you will. My biggest question is where the drain goes from there, but as I said I will just have to investigate further- I doubt you can tell me. :laughing:

Sounds like a "sand trap" to me Mike (legal even here where I'm not sure I can dump a cup of cold coffee on the ground). It might be that by using that they were following code and it isn't tied to your gray water system at all...can you see a pipe coming out of the edge of your driveway slab?

Other than that, you are correct! You live there and don't know where it goes! I can only guess...

 

[Toyboy]

Yep, the county that you live in sends out the notice to inspect/pump your system. It's up to the septic service to check out the system and decide which is needed. Personally I don't have a problem with that. I'd rather find out every 3 years if the system is properly working than go for a bunch of years like some of the guys here, and find out it's too late and needs replacing.

 

[MotorSeven]

My family has been in the septage business for over 50 years. Septic tanks take care of themselves. Adding yeast or dead groundhogs etc. is like throwing a cup of salt into the ocean to raise the salt level. Problems with septic systems are hydraulic overloading and organic clogging. Septic tanks are like the filters on our vehicles. They are there for maintenance to be pumped routinely, unlike the old cesspolls that only need to be pumped when they are full.
Septic tanks operate at a near full level with a baffle on the inlet pipe to keep inflowing sewage from distrubing and churning up the sewage in the septic tank. There is a baffle on the outlet line about 1" below the inlet line, this baffle keeps the floating scum, grease etc. from flowing into the drain field.
With normal use the septic tank with collect solid material on the bottom and light material on the surface. As the sludge and scum levels increase they decrease the amount of time new inflowing sewage as time to settle out causing the out flowing sewage to the drain field to carry over debris laden sewage. The septic tank can also be called a settling tank as it allows the grease, solid etc to settle out making for cleaner sewage to flow to the drain field. It is an antiarobic system which doesn't require oxygen. The use of cold water detergents that were popular a while ago contiained phosphorus to create the heat in the washing machine when mixed with water. It is our experiance that the phosphorus re-solidifies in the septic tank casusing a quicker build up of scum on the septic tank surface. To know when a tank needs to be pumped, a person can open the lid using safe practices on large openings,and check the thickness of the scum level on the surface of the tank. It should not be more than 5-8 inches thick. It is difficult to know how deep the sludge is on the bottom of the tank but if the scum level is little to none after 3-5 years it would be wise to pump it to find how your family use affects the system. If you have a garbage disposal, you should have your tank pumped more often because of the extra solids put into the system. The average pumping should be 2-3 years. Bragging that you haven't pumped your septic tank for many years is like bragging you haven't changed the oil filter in you tractor for years. If debris is carried over to your drain field the grease and detergent seals the pores in the soil preventing the water from being absorbed. This is called organic clogging. If your drain field becomes over loaded with sewage this would be hydraulic overloading. Organic clogging cannot be fixed, new drain field. Hydraulic overloading could be from a dripping spigot or running toilet, if you have to juggle the toilet flush handle, fix it, a running toilet can add an additional 28,000 gallons of water to a 1,500 gallon septic system in a year, thats a lot to expect the soil in the drain field to disipate. I hope this helps, relax flush you paper but not sanitary items, stop leaks and drips. Don't add anything extra and find a good sewage management company that has certification. I hope your find this helpful.

John great post, you covered it all perfectly:thumbsup:

 

[dmccarty]

There are guide lines on how often one should pump a septic tank based on the number of people in the house and the size of the tank.

From the NC Extension office. The section I cut and pasted is about half way through the page.
index

In spite of cleaning up the table, it might not be so easy to follow, so look at the above link. In our case, we have four people and I think a 1,500 gallon tank and we pump every four years. We have it timed for presidential election years which makes it REAL easy to remember to pump out the poo....

How Will I Know When to Pump the Tank?

The frequency with which you will need to pump depends on three variables: the size of your tank, the volume of your wastewater, and the solids content of your wastewater. If you are unsure about when to have the tank pumped, observe the yearly rate of solids accumulation. The tank should be pumped if the sludge layer has built up to within 25 to 33 percent of the liquid capacity of the tank. Therefore, a typical 1,000 gallon tank with a 4-foot liquid capacity should be pumped when the solids are 1-foot thick in the bottom of the tank. If the tank is not easily accessible, you may wish to inspect and pump it according to the frequency guidelines in Table 1. Your local health department should be able to tell you the size of your tank. When inspecting the tank, check the sanitary tee or the outlet baffle to be sure that it has not broken off and dropped into the tank. Also, be sure to have both compartments of the tank pumped.
Table 1. Estimated Septic Tank Inspection and Pumping Frequency in Years
...............Number of People Using the System
Tank Size...1.....2.......4......6......8
(gallons)-------------------------------
900..........11....5.......2......1......<1
1,000.......12....6.......3......2......1
1,250.......16....8.......3......2......1
1,500.......19....9.......4......3......2
Source: Adapted from "Estimated Septic Tank Pumping Frequency," by Karen Mancl, 1984. Journal of Environmental Engineering. Volume 110.

If the septic system is not used very often (as in an infrequently used vacation home with a correctly sized tank), it will probably not need to be pumped as frequently as indicated in the table. If you use a garbage disposal, the tank may need to be pumped more frequently. After a few inspections, you should be able to adjust the schedule according to the rate at which solids accumulate.

Later,
Dan

 

[gwiley]

I had one of our concrete tanks disintegrate after 10 years service. A post mortem showed the concrete was literally eaten away, in theory the bacteria went anaerobic and produced hydrogen sulfide gas which turned into sulfuric acid and just dissolved the tank lid and walls. The tank caved in one day with no warning leaving a gaping hole. That was a fun project

Keep the bacteria healthy if you have a concrete tank especially.

 

[Pettrix]

I had one of our concrete tanks disintegrate after 10 years service. A post mortem showed the concrete was literally eaten away, in theory the bacteria went anaerobic and produced hydrogen sulfide gas which turned into sulfuric acid and just dissolved the tank lid and walls. The tank caved in one day with no warning leaving a gaping hole. That was a fun project

Keep the bacteria healthy if you have a concrete tank especially.

Good info. That is why I am a proponent of introducing oxygen into conventional septic systems like SludgeHammer which is an Aerobic Bacterial Generator (ABG). It turns anaerobic tanks into aerobic tanks. You will not get hydrogen sulfide gas or methane gas with an aerobic system. Those gases are by-products of anaerobic digestion.

A crude example would be a 100 gallon tank of water sitting outside. The water will stagnate, smell and produce some pretty foul odors after just a week. Now, take an oxygenating stone and place it in the water. Within a day or two the smell is gone and the water is no longer stagnated.

Anyone with a pond knows the importance of introducing oxygen into the water to keep the water healthy. That same idea transfers over to septic tanks. Oxygenating them turns an anaerobic system to an aerobic system and creates and cleaner effluent and the leach field doesn't have the same problems as it would with an anaerobic system.

 

[PILOON]

In my city it is now mandatory to pump every 2 years, subject to fines!
And they do follow up!

From knowledgeable sources; -- my 2 cents.
Use only uncolored TP, or single ply.
No garbarators
Greases and fats should go to trash.
No chemical bowl cleaners, javex or other bleaches.
No 'feminine products' nor disposable diapers, J-cloths
No chemical additives
Shower rather than baths.
And naturally low flush toilets.(we used a RV toilet!)

We followed all those guidelines and pumped our system for the first time when the city passed the mandatory bylaw and the pumper guy stated that the system (home made hand poured with approved field) was just like a 2 year old system. The pumper guy congratulated me on a well done system!
That was the first pumping in 25 years!
And that is not my trade, when I built I was 'cash lacking' and in better shape than now. L.O.L.

 

[Pettrix]

A good alternative to using toilet bowl cleaners is BAKING SODA. It does a great job cleaning toilets and is natural. You can buy a huge bag of it at Costco for couple of bucks and it lasts a long time.

 

[TomSeller]

I have a vacation home on a septic tank. I always have put a 1/8 cup or so of bleach in each toilet bowl before leaving it for an extended period of time to keep the bowl clean. I never thought about that being a bad thing. The bowl is always down due to evaporation (I also shut the water supply off) when I get back so I wonder if there is still bleach in the bowl. I have learned a lot on this thread about something so out of sight and out of mind.

 

[sailfast]

I have a vacation home on a septic tank. I always have put a 1/8 cup or so of bleach in each toilet bowl before leaving it for an extended period of time to keep the bowl clean. I never thought about that being a bad thing. The bowl is always down due to evaporation (I also shut the water supply off) when I get back so I wonder if there is still bleach in the bowl. I have learned a lot on this thread about something so out of sight and out of mind.

Unlikely. Chlorine evaporates from the water much faster than the water does.

 

[PILOON]

I have a vacation home on a septic tank. I always have put a 1/8 cup or so of bleach in each toilet bowl before leaving it for an extended period of time to keep the bowl clean. I never thought about that being a bad thing. The bowl is always down due to evaporation (I also shut the water supply off) when I get back so I wonder if there is still bleach in the bowl. I have learned a lot on this thread about something so out of sight and out of mind.

A trick used by seasonal RV park users is to cover the bowl with SARAN WRAP as that seals out the air that causes the evaporation.
Seals in the water and keeps out odors.
(also used as a prank by some)

 

[GGB]

Maybe it's been mentioned already, but we now rinse out dairy products containers (yogurt, milk, sour cream, cottage cheese, etc.) before putting in the trash. And if we have an old yeast packet, instead of just throwing it out, I disolve it in warm (not hot) water and pour it down the drain. We have also started a compost pile with food scraps rather than running them down the garbage disposal.

One of the things I've wondered about it when you are on antibiotics. How much of an impact on a septic system would that have? Just to be safe, we will no longer dump old antibiotics down the toilet.

I still need to get a lint filter on our washing machine, and I'm going to look into a gray water sytem for it and at least our shower and sinks from the master bedroom, since it's just my Bride and myself.

We've got a lift system, and have had a pump fail which required pumping the system. While the pumper was here, I had him pump both tanks. The solids tank might not have ever been pumped, given the fact that the lid was buried. After digging it out, I installed a new riser to match the new one I installed to repair the broken riser on the liquids tank. It will make the next pumpout a lot easier.

 

[dmccarty]

...
We've got a lift system, and have had a pump fail which required pumping the system. While the pumper was here, I had him pump both tanks. The solids tank might not have ever been pumped, given the fact that the lid was buried. After digging it out, I installed a new riser to match the new one I installed to repair the broken riser on the liquids tank. It will make the next pumpout a lot easier.

Dang it. I forgot to mention the two in one tank issue. :duh::duh::duh: I thought about it on my previous post but the thought flew off somewhere.

Our tank, and I think most newer septic tanks have two tanks in the structure. One is for solids and the other for liquids. The outlet from the house goes into the the solid tank and eventually the liquids flow into the second tank. Per our local code ONLY the liquid tank has to have an access riser. :shocked: When the septic tank is pumped the SOLIDS need to be removed but this requires access to the other tank via a different access. This access does NOT have to have a riser per code but it is the side of the tank that needs to be pumped!

WHY the code does NOT require both risers is beyond me. The reason the code requires the one access riser is because that tank has the outflow to the septic field and our tanks have a filter. The code wants to make sure that the filter can be easily checked and cleaned by having the easy access otherwise if the filter becomes clogged, then stuff will start to backup into the house.

A dishonest tank pumper will only pump out the liquid side of the tank and leave the solids behind. Pun intended. If you have a septic tank that has two sides/tanks, make sure the solids are pumped.

Later,
Dan

 

[GGB]

Dang it. I forgot to mention the two in one tank issue. :duh::duh::duh: I thought about it on my previous post but the thought flew off somewhere.

Our tank, and I think most newer septic tanks have two tanks in the structure. One is for solids and the other for liquids. The outlet from the house goes into the the solid tank and eventually the liquids flow into the second tank. Per our local code ONLY the liquid tank has to have an access riser. :shocked: When the septic tank is pumped the SOLIDS need to be removed but this requires access to the other tank via a different access. This access does NOT have to have a riser per code but it is the side of the tank that needs to be pumped!

WHY the code does NOT require both risers is beyond me. The reason the code requires the one access riser is because that tank has the outflow to the septic field and our tanks have a filter. The code wants to make sure that the filter can be easily checked and cleaned by having the easy access otherwise if the filter becomes clogged, then stuff will start to backup into the house.

A dishonest tank pumper will only pump out the liquid side of the tank and leave the solids behind. Pun intended. If you have a septic tank that has two sides/tanks, make sure the solids are pumped.

Later,
Dan

Exactly! I didn't even know I had another tank until the new guy I had pump the second time asked about it. The first pumper never even indicated there might be another tank. Lesson learned-I'll never use the first pumper again.