Scooby074
Super Member
Dang.. that is some grade A ugly soldering on the Everlast...
I got $1,000 to spend on a welder, help me spend it.
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deereman75
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How did they even manage to get blobs of solder on the top side of the board. I thought these things were all bath soldered from the bottom. It really does look like it was hand soldered with an iron. And you have to wonder why seemingly half the components are bent over. As if Jeremy Clarkson put it together with a hammer. Edit: to avoid confusion, the blobs I am referring to are not the little dots, but the things that look like torch cut hanging off some of the connections.
troutsqueezer
Veteran Member
I doubt if they make them but they probably design them. You're right, a lot of companies farm out the assembly to places that know how to automatically stuff and wave solder with minimum mistakes. Everlast's boards have kluges (caps soldered on top of other caps - bad for mechanical reliability) and caps/resistors/diodes that don't fit the hole spacings, indicating that among other things, once the PCB was designed, they had to make significant changes from the original design. Rather than order new runs of PCB's which incorporated the changes, they stuck with the old boards and you see the result. Also, it is obvious the stuffing is done by hand, by folks who don't know how to solder, how to bend leads nor how to clean flux. Flux will contaminate the solder joint in time, the connection will fail when it does. That's why it is industry practice to run the soldered board thru a flux cleaning process.
troutsqueezer
Veteran Member
Curious, Markcuda, if you ever went to a welding forum and asked about the most suitable welder there.
Scooby074
Super Member
Since everlast controls, either directly or via sponsorship of sub-forums, many of the welding sites, i doubt he could have got a true answer assuming he wanted one..
Like the Borg...You MUST love the chinese welders...You will be assimilated.
Mark @ Everlast
Advertiser
This is a photo from a 2+ year old unit that was discussed in a thread a long time ago. At the time we also discussed that we were in the midst of a changeover of some manufacturing processes and in the process of condensing down the board. These were mods that were added/deleted during production to meet the new performance standards. And the other picture from Miller was posted as well. But apples and oranges are being compared here...no frame of reference, no part by part, no unit by unit comparison...simply a "board" from Miller and a board from ours. A detailed one of ours, and a fuzzy one of theirs. Anyone find it ironic that the picture of the board was posted was derived from a repair company's site...and the board posted isn't straight from the OEM? Not saying the quality isn't good from the OEM, but the fact it is a repaired board...and the unit posted was on a functioning, to this day I believe, unit. Not all our units at the time looked like that and the unit posted, the PP60S doesn't look like that now. The new PowerPlasma 60S are much more streamlined internally and externally. I don't have a picture of a new unit from a PP60S but since we're playing fast and loose with the discussion here...here's some pictures from some of our other units... for comparison... just to prove the point that we do change and this is old news. I'd venture to say, you won't find as much improvement in a Miller in the last few years. I think it also goes to show the lengths at which people go to make drive by sucker punch remarks. I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement in our stuff...but a machine that costs a third as much including the ones below...I think it's not bad.The first two are from my new powertig that I just went to take a picture of just for this thread comment. Another is from another small powerarc model, and the balance are from one of our MTS units.
Edit: sorry, uploaded pictures out of order. First is mts, next two are my PowerTig, next is PowerArc, last is MTS. FWIW...same guys posted same basic comments in the old thread.
Edit: sorry, uploaded pictures out of order. First is mts, next two are my PowerTig, next is PowerArc, last is MTS. FWIW...same guys posted same basic comments in the old thread.
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Mark @ Everlast
Advertiser
Mark is a seasoned MIG welder. He's no amateur. He welds every day...and isn't a spring chicken.
Mendonsy
Veteran Member
Looks like Everlast sent the little Chinese guy to soldering school!
OP
Markcuda
Veteran Member
Now this is just funnyLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO
And what would they tell me to buy?
Shield Arc
Super Member
On Miller's site they will tell you to buy a Miller. On Hobart's site they will tell you to buy a Hobart.And what would they tell me to buy?
See a pattern yet?:laughing:
On Welding Web they will tell you to buy anything but a POS Chinese welder.
OP
Markcuda
Veteran Member
I find myself going on that site less and less each week
Shield Arc
Super Member
It can be fairly rough there at times. AWS is even worse!
deereman75
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I can't stand welding Web. For every good answer, you get 10 posts that couldn't be less helpful.
troutsqueezer
Veteran Member
As I recall, you posted that pic as representative of the craftsmanship that Everlast was capable of. That is what we had to go on and to those of us who know the PCB trade well, it told quite a story. The clarity and source of the Miller pictures has no bearing on the points being made. Google "Miller PCB" images if it makes a difference to you.
IMO, extraordinary claims (as made by Everlast with respect to the degree it is supposed to outperform Miller and Lincoln for a fraction of the cost) require extraordinary proof and your attempt to impress by publishing that first photo of the PCB failed miserably.
"Drive by sucker punch remarks" doesn't describe the conversations and illustrates the frustration you are feeling when someone questions your products. Best to take the higher road if you want to influence people.
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troutsqueezer
Veteran Member
Then I am confused as to why he asked the question in the first place. It seemed he wanted some advice but apparently only wanted to strike up a conversation. Not a crime, most posts on TBN are started in that fashion. I just need to learn how to differentiate between the two types.
Mark @ Everlast
Advertiser
The high road? After you took the low one? And you are lecturing me and questioning Mark(cuda)'s intention from that position? You posted the pics here...and apparently saved them for future use... The main purpose I believe, though it has been 2 years or so...was to show the type components we used...name brand electronics. Even then I believe we discussed the particulars of the changes being made. And the effort continues. The plasmas are no longer HF, and all are blow back start. Internal toughness has been improved and will be even more improved this year.
But either you assumed (insert the old saying here) that we aren't improving our product or you are just willfully trying to defame a company. Either way, you're holding a bad bluff.
But either you assumed (insert the old saying here) that we aren't improving our product or you are just willfully trying to defame a company. Either way, you're holding a bad bluff.
deereman75
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I have to call you on it mark, he did recommend Miller at the beginning.
Mark @ Everlast
Advertiser
You are right...since the thread has gotten off track...I should have reviewed it. But the point remains...he drops in with his pictures from several years ago, that he had cut and pasted and saved. Last comment removed...rest remains.
deereman75
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I agree with you completely, if the pictures don't reflect your current products, there is no place for them in a comparison. Might as well be using a picture of a model T seat to compare the comfort of an f350 to a 3500 ram.
Scooby074
Super Member
Maybe they've improved since those pictures.. Maybe they haven't.. as evidenced by the brand NEW welder that was DOA.. I think a MUCH more expensive welder was substituted in order to satisfy the OP and keep the fact that the original welder was a POS from getting blown up all over TBN. There's money to be made selling Neverlast here!!!
Squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that...
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