CDP MID600 "backhoe build" project

[Dongerosa]

Getting back on my "backhoe build" project that started in Feb. 2004 for a BX Bota, now it's going on a B7510...think it's about time to get'erdone! looking through all my notes and instructions got a few questions.

being new to all this stuff...and spent way too many hours on this site lurking at hoe threads...3pt attachment issues...sub-frame builds. So, building a sub-frame for my 3pt designed hoe, finally got the design that I think will work with the metal i got in my shop.

#1. it states to use JIC#6 hoses, now looking at Surplus Center they have two hose sizes, 1/4 or 3/8 dia. I'm thinking with the 2" cylinders and a 5 GPM pump the 1/4" should be fine. my thinking correct?

#2. never used a backhoe before...So, what would be the best/most used pattern for controls to learn on....ISO or SAE or other?

Great Site!

 

[medic0648]

3/8 would be better. My yanmar uses 3/8 on almost everything. The 1/4 is very small for the flow.

 

[Dongerosa]

3/8 it will be!

now ISO or SAE control for the two lever valve...pictures attached!
View attachment 295464
View attachment 295465

 

[Jose G]

invalid attachment

 

[Dongerosa]

invalid attachment

lets try this....ISO pattern.... http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&...w=197&start=0&ndsp=22&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:85

SAE pattern..... http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&h...0&ndsp=27&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:85&tx=87&ty=58

 

[Dongerosa]

An project up date...got the sub frame done...a few, self created, issues with the front mounting, but is done now! bolts on the the front two 5/8 dia. on each side...the rear has 1 inch stubs that fit into axle brkts.


next step...weld hoe base to the sub-frame.

Pic of all the parts....

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

My BH77 on my B3300SU uses ISO pattern (along with every other backhoe/excavator I've run). It also uses 3/8 lines as the main pressure and return to the BH valve with 1/4" lines to the cylinders.

 

[Dongerosa]

My BH77 on my B3300SU uses ISO pattern (along with every other backhoe/excavator I've run). It also uses 3/8 lines as the main pressure and return to the BH valve with 1/4" lines to the cylinders.

Thks for the ISO and line size feedback.

made a little more progress in the garage...

 

[Dongerosa]

a few more pictures...

arm mock-up



stabilizers with center section...



starting to look like a backhoe....:cool2:

 

[ptgdigger]

Looks great ! I like that the pieces have the modern style as see on a commercial backhoe unit.

You mention CDP so I assume either the pivot weldments were bought from them or cut to their template, I just find it odd that the ends of the pivot weldments are straight were the get welded to the tubes. I was always taught that you should never weld straight across a boom or arm on ground engaging equipment, commercial machines like Case or Deere go to extremes to eliminate straight welds on their hoes and front loader arms. I realize this is a much lower stress application , it's just that CDP seems to have done a good deal of engineering on this and I'm surprised they left it out.

Picture for clarity of what I'm talking about:


Ray

 

[Renze]

never used a backhoe before...So, what would be the best/most used pattern for controls to learn on....ISO or SAE or other?

SAE is standard in North America, ISO is standard in Europe.

Its a PITA when the machine acts differently than your autopilot operates it... so when in North America, get used to SAE so you're not a danger to workers when you ever use a 360 trackhoe.

 

[Dongerosa]

Looks great ! I like that the pieces have the modern style as see on a commercial backhoe unit.

You mention CDP so I assume either the pivot weldments were bought from them or cut to their template, I just find it odd that the ends of the pivot weldments are straight were the get welded to the tubes. I was always taught that you should never weld straight across a boom or arm on ground engaging equipment, commercial machines like Case or Deere go to extremes to eliminate straight welds on their hoes and front loader arms. I realize this is a much lower stress application , it's just that CDP seems to have done a good deal of engineering on this and I'm surprised they left it out.

Picture for clarity of what I'm talking about: View attachment 299830


Ray

Ray,

Yep, bought the plama cut parts, and now that you mention it, I've seen that on hoes. Thanks for the marked up photo.

I do have to say that all other hoe kits are the same way (straight across) the arms welding. But it would make a better looking and strong unit if they did add the taped to center side plates.

 

[ptgdigger]

SAE is standard in North America, ISO is standard in Europe.

Its a PITA when the machine acts differently than your autopilot operates it... so when in North America, get used to SAE so you're not a danger to workers when you ever use a 360 trackhoe.

Backhoes never had a "standard" in North America, I've probably run somewhere over 50 different backhoes in my life and Cat was the only one I've ever run with SAE, Deere has always used ISO , although they never called it ISO, Case has always had their own proprietary 3 stick setup w/foot swing. If you ordered a new Case you could get "Case" controls or "Deere" controls, no mention of Cat controls. Of course Cat backhoes are not popular in this area , there are probably 10 Case and 7 Deere for every 1 Cat in my region of the US.

All the arguments started when mini excavators started to get popular, the controls were wrong ! Not really but all the old operators thought so because if it had 2 sticks it should work like Deere controls, there were a few rough years there but now we see most of the mini's coming with electric over hyd controls which can be easily switched and Case and Deere are offering excavator style controls in their backhoes as well.

Ray

 

[Renze]

Backhoes never had a "standard" in North America, I've probably run somewhere over 50 different backhoes in my life and Cat was the only one I've ever run with SAE, Deere has always used ISO ,

Interesting !! Here in Europe we have "European" controls (ISO) and everybody hated the odd machine with "American" controls (SAE) so therefor my idea that in the USA every machine would have "american" controls

My Bobcat bobtach 905B backhoe (converted for tractor use) is ISO, i allways though they switched the hoses for the European market, but they might just sell it with ISO controls in the USA too...

I am bidding on a bankruptcy auction, an excavator superstructure for a Unimog. awkward to use on a Mog, but cutting it up and welding it to a sideshift 3pt frame it might be a very nice and strong backhoe for farm use, so i can sell the Bobcat to a campsite groundskeeper or other people with money but no stamina to use a shovel.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

Backhoes never had a "standard" in North America, I've probably run somewhere over 50 different backhoes in my life and Cat was the only one I've ever run with SAE, Deere has always used ISO , although they never called it ISO, Case has always had their own proprietary 3 stick setup w/foot swing. If you ordered a new Case you could get "Case" controls or "Deere" controls, no mention of Cat controls. Of course Cat backhoes are not popular in this area , there are probably 10 Case and 7 Deere for every 1 Cat in my region of the US.

All the arguments started when mini excavators started to get popular, the controls were wrong ! Not really but all the old operators thought so because if it had 2 sticks it should work like Deere controls, there were a few rough years there but now we see most of the mini's coming with electric over hyd controls which can be easily switched and Case and Deere are offering excavator style controls in their backhoes as well.

Ray

Case or Deere but not Cat? Interesting, controls here they are often referred to as Cat or Deere but no Case. Sometimes I'll run across someone calling them English (ISO) or Montreal (SAE) as french is often 'backward' of English. Seems the most natural to me that the bucket & stick are the same control and boom & swing are the other just purely by the way they are mounted ----> bucket is mounted to stick.

 

[ptgdigger]

Seems the most natural to me that the bucket & stick are the same control and boom & swing are the other just purely by the way they are mounted ----> bucket is mounted to stick.

I couldn't agree with you more , if it were up to me we would throw all the other ones out, the nature of most construction dictates that someone is going to be in the area of the hoe placing pipe , setting a manhole or a valve and having multiple controls is an issue of safety. In our trades union system if you get called to a job you have no idea what you'll be operating until you get there as many contractors use rentals these days.

Ray

 

[Dongerosa]

Hard to believe no USA standard...Guess I'm going to have to let my elected officials know...i know they can pass a bill to fix this and have some more freebee to give away from my tax dollars!!!!!...lol

Mea culpa

 

[Dongerosa]

A little painting yesterday...



also got 0.035 wire for welder to do some 3/16 thickness welding.

 

[Renze]

Hard to believe no USA standard...Guess I'm going to have to let my elected officials know...i know they can pass a bill to fix this and have some more freebee to give away from my tax dollars!!!!!...lol

Modern track hoes are CAN controlled so you can choose ISO or SAE controls without switiching servo hoses on the sticks.

 

[Renze]

A little painting yesterday...

View attachment 300438

also got 0.035 wire for welder to do some 3/16 thickness welding.

Looks like you need to turn up the amps on your welder. ?