JD 450 Dozer vs Case 450 Dozer

TractorBob1529 · Mar 2, 2013

Looking at some used equipment for some land clearing. Found two dozer around the same price JD 450 $6100.00 and Case 450 $6500.00. These are older models in about the same shape, JD has less UC. Which one should I consider?

MBTRAC · Mar 2, 2013

Having owned both previously, the JD is a lot more difficult to work on with major disassembly required to access most components for inspection/repair.

rustyshakelford · Mar 2, 2013

In that price range I'm assuming a 70s-early 80s machine. If the case is a three stick I'd go with that. Those are good little tractors and easy to move. Should be two track speed sticks and a FNR that's a little shorter

Brett

crazyal · Mar 3, 2013

What are your plans for land clearing? The Case will be limited on what it can do, is the JD heavier? It'll push large stumps with easy but even with a 6 way blade it's good up to about 12" diameter (this will vary some with different types of soils and trees), larger ones will require you to spend time doing things like trying to dig down on the sides of the stump to cut roots. But the Case is a very good dozer. Parts are easy to come by and pretty reasonable price wise. You can push it past it's limits without doing any damage. You will want a 6 way blade.

TractorBob1529 · Mar 3, 2013

Most what I am doing will be finish work. Any stumps or so I got a mini-ex for. If anything I might hold out and get a CTL. Guess I'll save the money and keep looking for a nice one in my price range.

MBTRAC · Mar 3, 2013

You might want to check out these threads (if you haven't already done so)-
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/272489-possible-dozer-purchase.html
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/construction-equipment/272098-advice-dozer-plz.html

EddieWalker · Mar 3, 2013

Which one has the better dealer? I've run a Deere 450G and I own a Case 1550 dozer. I can't compare the same sized dozers, but can say that Case can be difficult to get parts. They stop making some parts for their machines and if they don't have it, you are out of luck. I've had to go to salvage yards for my Case Dozer. I will say that the guys who work there went to a lot of effort to try and get me the parts I needed, but effort wasn't enough. My engine is a Cummins, but you can only got through Case to get parts for the engine. Case and Cummins have an agreement that if you use the engine number to get parts, a parts store like Napa or ABC or even a truck dealership cannot find any information on that engine. It's like it doesn't exist. Having said that, the price for engine parts is as good or better then the parts stores when I compared things like a new Turbo and bearings.

On the Deere, it also had some issues with getting parts and only being able to go through the dealer to get them. I don't have anywhere near as much experience on the Deere, or wrenching on it, but found that they where about the same as far as getting parts and what you pay for them.

So it really comes down to the dealer.

Eddie

TractorBob1529 · Mar 3, 2013

Not to change the subject, but I found a JD 450 track loader. I know it don't have the 6-way blade, but I think I can get about the same work done. Should I even consider the track loader instead of a dozer? The loader is an mid 70s, but it's cheaper by almost half. $3500.00 And I miss being in Texas.

TractorBob1529 · Mar 3, 2013

This is it. The guy says it needs a new drive clutch. Is it worth it?

jenkinsph · Mar 3, 2013

TractorBob,
I had a similar 450 dozer like that about 40 years ago in decent shape. Can't imagine wanting to go there again at todays prices for parts. I suspect you would be buying a money pit.

TractorBob1529 · Mar 3, 2013

That's what I though. Worth looking into. I guest I'm back to square one. Better than a 6ft backhoe on a MF1529. Got to keep looking.

MBTRAC · Mar 3, 2013

TractorBob1529 said:
Not to change the subject, but I found a JD 450 track loader. I know it don't have the 6-way blade, but I think I can get about the same work done. Should I even consider the track loader instead of a dozer? The loader is an mid 70s, but it's cheaper by almost half. $3500.00 And I miss being in Texas.

Consider also that a track loader will not push anywhere near as hard as an equivalent sized dozer & is a "lightweight" in ripping tasks, but IMO if your heart's set on a crawler & I could only own one machine I'd personally take a track loader every time over a dozer because of it's extra versatility - as for repair costs it's much the same, whilst in theory the track loader may be marginally higher than a dozer generally it works out about the same (or worse for dozer) because of extra abuse dozers are subjected to.

TractorBob1529 · Mar 3, 2013

Is there not one machine that does it all and never breaks down? And for cheap too! I can only dream, until then I keep looking and turning wrenches.

MBTRAC · Mar 3, 2013

TractorBob1529 said:
Is there not one machine that does it all and never breaks down? And for cheap too! I can only dream, until then I keep looking and turning wrenches.

Yep there's actually two machines like that - it's the one I don't own & the other one's a shovel....

.

MtnViewRanch · Mar 5, 2013

MBTRAC said:
Yep there's actually two machines like that - it's the one I don't own & the other one's a shovel.....

If you have never broken a shovel, then you have never used one in the proper manner.

MtnViewRanch · Mar 5, 2013

Not to get side tracked, but one of the things that get me is how so many people call tracked machines money pits. If one was to take into consideration of how much work is done with a tracked machine, is it really any more that what a wheeled machine would cost to do the same amount of work? The money pits are the machines that are warn out and on the verge of breakdown. But then doesn't that apply to any machine? I suppose that yes the tracked machine costs more to R&R, but if you take into consideration of how much work has been done by that machine, is it really that costly? I think that they aren't any different than ANYTHING ELSE, if you happen to get it at the end of it's normal life, then it is going to cost you a bunch of money to get it back to good working order.

Buy a 50 year old house that has had minimal maintenance, you don't just move in and expect to live there for the next 50 years without spending some money.

Just my :2cents:

jenkinsph · Mar 5, 2013

Brian,
I think it is more a matter of people buying a worn out machine because of the lower initial entry price and thinking they will save money. You are right that a track machine can do alot of work but you have to get one that has some work left in it or be prepared to pay to put the life back in it. You have to be prepared for this either way.

MtnViewRanch · Mar 5, 2013

Steve, I understand this. I guess I didn't express myself well. If a person buys old worn out anything, they need to expect to put money into it. Yes a warn out tracked machine is going to cost more to put some life back into it than a wheeled machine. No different than buying a 100 year old, 1000 square foot house and a 100 year old, 3000 square foot house. One is going to cost more to rejuvenate than the other. Common sense.

Sometimes I forget that there are people that don't realize this and that that is why we are here, to help them out. :ashamed:

cmbertrand · Mar 5, 2013

I just finished...or thought I finished, an early 80's model case 450b. Been in weeds for last 10 yrs or so. Pretty simple little dozer. Had all undercarriage done and few other things. Got about one hour seat time before fuel pump quite working. Gotta jump on that next.

MBTRAC · Mar 5, 2013

MtnViewRanch said:
Not to get side tracked, but one of the things that get me is how so many people call tracked machines money pits. If one was to take into consideration of how much work is done with a tracked machine, is it really any more that what a wheeled machine would cost to do the same amount of work? The money pits are the machines that are warn out and on the verge of breakdown. But then doesn't that apply to any machine? I suppose that yes the tracked machine costs more to R&R, but if you take into consideration of how much work has been done by that machine, is it really that costly? I think that they aren't any different than ANYTHING ELSE, if you happen to get it at the end of it's normal life, then it is going to cost you a bunch of money to get it back to good working order.

Buy a 50 year old house that has had minimal maintenance, you don't just move in and expect to live there for the next 50 years without spending some money.

Just my :2cents:

Sure $ for $ in the right application a crawler can't be beaten, $ for $ in the wrong application a crawler is without doubt the most expense way to move material.
The key factors to operating any crawler economically are:
- an experienced operator who can make the most out of the machine without over-stressing it
- limiting travel to the absolute minimum so the tracks only turn if they are productive
- using a machine right sized for the application
- owning a "good" machine, that is one that is not beyond economic operation/repair

There's good reason traxcavators( i.e crawler loaders) are a dying breed, there are progressively less sub D7 sized dozers used in commercial operations & fewer smaller contractors own dozers....for most they no longer make economic sense & as an "aged" machine they're even harder to justify as a cost effective "investment" operating as a "tool of trade" on farms even if you value your seat time @ zero $'s - sure we always know someone who manages through good managment (or pure luck) to save dollar by owning/operating to clear their land, but for every 1 who comes out in front there are at least 10 who end up behind the 8 ball........IMO owning a crawler is akin to an ex wife who just keeps trying to bleed you dry.....