JD 450 Dozer vs Case 450 Dozer

[MtnViewRanch]

Sure $ for $ in the right application a crawler can't be beaten, $ for $ in the wrong application a crawler is without doubt the most expense way to move material.
The key factors to operating any crawler economically are:
- an experienced operator who can make the most out of the machine without over-stressing it
- limiting travel to the absolute minimum so the tracks only turn if they are productive
- using a machine right sized for the application
- owning a "good" machine, that is one that is not beyond economic operation/repair

There's good reason traxcavators( i.e crawler loaders) are a dying breed, there are progressively less sub D7 sized dozers used in commercial operations & fewer smaller contractors own dozers....for most they no longer make economic sense & as an "aged" machine they're even harder to justify as a cost effective "investment" operating as a "tool of trade" on farms even if you value your seat time @ zero $'s - sure we always know someone who manages through good managment (or pure luck) to save dollar by owning/operating to clear their land, but for every 1 who comes out in front there are at least 10 who end up behind the 8 ball........IMO owning a crawler is akin to an ex wife who just keeps trying to bleed you dry.....

Isn't this true for about just about everything? Use the wrong tool for the application and it just goes down hill from there. The right tool with the right person and amazing things can be accomplished. I must be one of those 1 out of 10, because I have had excellent luck with my old warn out crawlers. They have paid for themselves many many times over.

 

[MBTRAC]

Isn't this true for about just about everything? Use the wrong tool for the application and it just goes down hill from there. The right tool with the right person and amazing things can be accomplished. -1

I must be one of those 1 out of 10, because I have had excellent luck with my old warn out crawlers. They have paid for themselves many many times over. -2

1. Agreed, but few are going to be so costly as misuse or plain bad luck with a crawler.......

2.Great when crawler ownership works out in your favour, but for those aspiring/new to "aged" crawler ownership it's remains a potential minefield of down time & escalating costs- not suggesting it can't prove viable though it's generally the exception, & owning/operating any "aged" crawler can be exponentially more costly/problematic than owning/operating an aged wheeled ag tractor, vehicle, backhoe or even an excavator...etc....& repaing a crawler is whole different ballgame (from recovery.....to workshop requirements ...to skillset, craneage, tools..etc)

 

[MtnViewRanch]

1. Agreed, but few are going to be so costly as misuse or plain bad luck with a crawler.......

2.Great when crawler ownership works out in your favour, but for those aspiring/new to "aged" crawler ownership it's remains a potential minefield of down time & escalating costs- not suggesting it can't prove viable though it's generally the exception, & owning/operating any "aged" crawler can be exponentially more costly/problematic than owning/operating an aged wheeled ag tractor, vehicle, backhoe or even an excavator...etc....& repaing a crawler is whole different ballgame (from recovery.....to workshop requirements ...to skillset, craneage, tools..etc)

Agreed, crawlers are usually not the best way to go for the inexperienced.

 

[DavesTractor]

MtnViewRanch, how about a picture of your little crawler?

 

[RedNeckRacin]

I somewhat diasgree about the D7 size comment. I work in heavy industry (gas and oil) and we never use anything bigger than a D8. There is just to much cost associated with moving bigger iron that it doesn't make sense to be lugging it around. We do however contract out all of our dirt work and the D6 is by far and away the most popular size followed by a D5 and then the D8 shows up for the largest projects. One contractor swears by a little case dozer for doing his finish grading on his projects. His machines even have the GPS system on them, but he was trained old school and finishes by the seat of his pants.

 

[jdtractor]

I will have to agree with RedNeckRacin. I would also say that the D6,D7,D8 series tractors are very popular. They are also very good for land clearing and used Highly as the main series tractor on pipeline work. I know this to be true because of past pipeline experience. As RedNeckRacin said the D6 and D7 are easy to move especialy the D6. These size tractors have the B***S to move dirt and do hillside work ,along with clean up.Ive run all of these series and like he said i was taught to run by the *** of my pants. You wont go wrong with any of these tractors. I personally like the deere line of small dozers. they are top notch IMO.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

MtnViewRanch, how about a picture of your little crawler?

Here are a few.

 

[jenkinsph]

Brian,
That really looks good:thumbsup:

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Brian,
That really looks good:thumbsup:

Thanks Steve, unfortunately it doesn't get used very much any more. but then nothing is getting used much these days. :frown:

 

[wmonroe]

Here are a few.

Very nice! What is the coil of hose in the engine compartment in the 3rd picture?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Very nice! What is the coil of hose in the engine compartment in the 3rd picture?

All the hydraulic lines from the valves.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Not to get side tracked, but one of the things that get me is how so many people call tracked machines money pits. If one was to take into consideration of how much work is done with a tracked machine, is it really any more that what a wheeled machine would cost to do the same amount of work? The money pits are the machines that are warn out and on the verge of breakdown. But then doesn't that apply to any machine? I suppose that yes the tracked machine costs more to R&R, but if you take into consideration of how much work has been done by that machine, is it really that costly? I think that they aren't any different than ANYTHING ELSE, if you happen to get it at the end of it's normal life, then it is going to cost you a bunch of money to get it back to good working order.

Buy a 50 year old house that has had minimal maintenance, you don't just move in and expect to live there for the next 50 years without spending some money.

Just my :2cents:

I can tell you from personal experience "money pit" fits for a 50 year old house that has minimal maintenance.

There are times when my mind goes weak and I look at old dozers. Hopefully the kids will keep me from ever buying one.

If I were to buy one I would want to work it enough before I paid for it to know all the features worked long enough to get the engine to operating temp. I would not touch one that would not run/work. I think it was a tractor that I looked at once. The guy said it ran fine but just needed a starter. After that I knew it was time to test the starter on my truck.

 

[EddieWalker]

I think of my dozer as a money pit. It's older, well used and highly abused. I've caused some of the damage, and I've had to fix what others have done. The nature of how it's used causes it to break, but you know that when doing some things, you are risking some damage. To me, the term money pit just means that it's going to cost me a lot of money to use it. What I get out of it is worth the expense, so I keep doing it.

Best example is when my fan came off the engine and tore up the shroud. That was almost two grand for those parts because they just don't exist anymore and after months of looking, I was able to get them used from a salvage yard in FL. Shipping alone was a couple of hundred bucks!!!!

Eddie

 

[jenkinsph]

I think of my dozer as a money pit. It's older, well used and highly abused. I've caused some of the damage, and I've had to fix what others have done. The nature of how it's used causes it to break, but you know that when doing some things, you are risking some damage. To me, the term money pit just means that it's going to cost me a lot of money to use it. What I get out of it is worth the expense, so I keep doing it.

Best example is when my fan came off the engine and tore up the shroud. That was almost two grand for those parts because they just don't exist anymore and after months of looking, I was able to get them used from a salvage yard in FL. Shipping alone was a couple of hundred bucks!!!!

Eddie

The thing is you trade time and money to get the results you wan't. All the hard work along with the time and money and you have Lake Marabou, certainly well worth the trade. I think it looks great Eddie.:thumbsup:

 

[crazyal]

I never looked for larger Case parts but the 450, 450a, and 450b were popular tractors and there's plenty of companies still making aftermarket parts for them. The local dealer (before they went out of business) never had a problem getting any part I needed.

 

[DavesTractor]

Thanks Steve, unfortunately it doesn't get used very much any more. but then nothing is getting used much these days. :frown:

Brian, you do very nice work. That looks so clean.

I just bought a JD 420 crawler with a Holt dozer from an estate. It had been in the shed for decades, used once or twice a year. But it has been "farmer painted" at least once in it's life. Of course it is a farm rig, not construction.

Your rig looks like it has an automotive grade paint job on it. Nice.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Brian, you do very nice work. That looks so clean.

I just bought a JD 420 crawler with a Holt dozer from an estate. It had been in the shed for decades, used once or twice a year. But it has been "farmer painted" at least once in it's life. Of course it is a farm rig, not construction.

Your rig looks like it has an automotive grade paint job on it. Nice.[/QUOTE]

Rustoleum from True Value with a bit of hardener added. Sprayed with a Harbor Freight paint gun. But then this was not the first time that I've painted either.

 

[DavesTractor]

Brian, I guess that is just raw talent showing through!

 

[stathamj]

I'm kind of in the same fix. So,to speak. I too, am looking for a small dozer/loader. I want it to mainly clean and maintain fencelines and a few other tasks around the homestead. This may be the wrong way to look at it. But, I look at it as a novelty or "Toy" for big boy so to speak. Now, I've never operated one much. I have ran on a little years ago when I was looking earlier for one. But, and by no means and operator. Yes, it's more cost efficient to hire it done. Or, rent one and do it yourself.
I've never looked into repairing a dozer or loader though. I'm just giving examples so by all means please let me know as I'm looking for advice as well. I'm kind of using figures that I've seen around on these forums. So, they may not be exact.
But, if I bought a dozer/loader for 7,000 then spent 10,000 to have a new U/C put in. I have a pretty good dozer/loader for 17,000. That should last quite a while, using it only 100 hours a year. I compare this to restoring old cars 5,000 for a old car and 10,000-50,000 to restore it. This may not be the correct analogy. But, I could say I rebuilt it. But, I would not do this if I were going to use it for a buisiness. Any thoughts. The ones that I've bee looking at are the JD 350/450 dozer/loader, the Case 350/450 dozer/loader, or the Cat D2, D3, D4, 931,933,941,943.

James

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I'm kind of in the same fix. So,to speak. I too, am looking for a small dozer/loader. I want it to mainly clean and maintain fencelines and a few other tasks around the homestead. This may be the wrong way to look at it. But, I look at it as a novelty or "Toy" for big boy so to speak. Now, I've never operated one much. I have ran on a little years ago when I was looking earlier for one. But, and by no means and operator. Yes, it's more cost efficient to hire it done. Or, rent one and do it yourself.
I've never looked into repairing a dozer or loader though. I'm just giving examples so by all means please let me know as I'm looking for advice as well. I'm kind of using figures that I've seen around on these forums. So, they may not be exact.
But, if I bought a dozer/loader for 7,000 then spent 10,000 to have a new U/C put in. I have a pretty good dozer/loader for 17,000. That should last quite a while, using it only 100 hours a year. I compare this to restoring old cars 5,000 for a old car and 10,000-50,000 to restore it. This may not be the correct analogy. But, I could say I rebuilt it. But, I would not do this if I were going to use it for a buisiness. Any thoughts. The ones that I've bee looking at are the JD 350/450 dozer/loader, the Case 350/450 dozer/loader, or the Cat D2, D3, D4, 931,933,941,943.

James

I agree with your analogy, sort of. But, in my area anyway, not many crawlers for less than $10K that are even worth rebuilding. You wouldn't be putting 10k into it, more like 20 and for 30k you can buy a nice machine and go to work with it and not have to rebuild it at all. I personally have had GREAT luck with old worn out machines. Have gotten anywhere from 10-30 times my moneys worth.

When a person goes this route, some times they win, :thumbsup: other time not. If you go into it knowing that it may not work out cost wise, and know when to give up on the machine, you should be fine. We have an old 1943 D6. Cost $1500 to buy it. It paid for itself the first time that I used it and has saved me over $20 in rental fees. The convenience alone has been worth the purchase. When it breaks, it most likely will be done. May even sit where it breaks, but until then, it is still pulling away.

Good luck with your decision.