Things that I don't need on my truck

[robbyr]

Well, whose measuring stick is longer?

 

[timswi]

I personally prefer cubic inches...When the gubment finally forces all pickup manufactuers to run 2cyl engins we'll all have to deal with 8 turbo's to make up for it...Until then, I'll keep buying big motors.

 

[Ford850]

Dmace, I'm not sure where you get your info or "facts. You want to act like you are an expert on the Ecoboost engines, but you keep coming up with false or exaggerated misinformation. How many miles have you driven one? How heavy were the trailers you pulled with an Ecoboost? What sort of inclines did you climb while driving the Ecoboost? How loud or quiet was the engine as you accelerated in the passing lane while towing? Did you find the shifts were smooth or rough while driving the Ecoboost?
Why do you think the tq converter is so special for the Ecoboost? It uses the same one as the 3.7L V6 uses. Ford has one part for the V6 engines, and another for the V8.

 

[jejeosborne]

Desirable? :laughing: Your kidding right?
Who would "desire" to have some trick torque converter constantly trying to make up for the actual lack of power...?

I firmly believe Ford is padding the actual power output of this engine at low RPMs and they know it's nearly impossible to prove. Real world claims show it equals the old technology V8's but lacks towing fuel mileage and simplicity. If it's not light years ahead of old technology then what's the point?

Post that dyno sheet all you want, all it proves is the Ecoboost can match V8 power OVER 3,000 RPMs. It DOES NOT PROVE ANYTHING UNDER 3,000! Again, I have yet to see any real proof of low end power from this engine because I know it's not there. Small displacement turbocharged engines just don't do it. They can not possibly make that power without boost which does not come on that early.
Funny how you found a different dyno that shows stock ENGINE numbers and not Rear Wheel HP. Try using the real one you posted earlier which shows nothing under 3k rpms for either and shows them nearly equal.
View attachment 309441

Yes it was and that reason is NO LOW END GRUNT. If it shifted sooner, the turbos would have to wait for the torque converter to slip and RPMs to climb so the turbos spool again and that lag would cause too much a drop in power.

I certainly don't want to stop technology but I question any technology that doesn't make sense. Why go through all this trouble designing this complex system just to get similar results to others? Even compared to their own 5.0l...

All nonsense! You are the ONLY person to state the ecoboost doesn't make low rpm power. Every review, publication, and personal experience I have ever seen speaks of this. What is your source of information? I have a boost gage in my truck and can EASILY get 13 psi of boost at 2000 rpms.

No I have not towed with one only driven but driven plenty and have seen plenty of test that show it performs very similar to the other offerings. I don't doubt it tows as well as the other V8's but at the cost of so much more that can fail for such little gain. So why take a chance with all this new unproven tech for minimal gains?

I figured you had no real experience to draw from.

Last questions and I highly doubt your answer truthfully as that answer would be against all your trying to sell here.

If the Ecoboost makes so much low end power and torque so early and so flat, Why did they need this active torque converter? Why not put the same basic simple torque converter from the 5.0l and 6.2l? They don't need slipping drivetrains to put the power to the ground...
If this engine replaces the 6.2l, Why is it not in the Super Duty pickups? Is it because that trick rear end can't handle 12k+ loads or constant tow duty?

I have already answered the torque converter question. Why do I need to again? I do not work in Fords marketing department to answer your question about the super duty pickups. I feel it would be a good option for that application.

Feel free to post some facts then, so far the only facts I see prove nothing spectacular here yet the "opinions" of these internet articles seem to be written in gold to the Ford camp...
Fact - Turbo equals great flat mid-range power but lag on low end and lean on top end.
Fact - Supercharger equals great low end and mid-range power but lacking top end.
Fact - There is NO replacement for displacement. You cannot simply replace a large explosion with one half the size but slightly more concentrated.

Opinion - Direct injection will take over Port injection in ALL engines within 15 years or until the take-over of electric engines. Trucks will utilize large displacement direct injection engines over small displacement turbo engines due to simplicity and longevity.
Experience - I built a well-tuned 4 cylinder 2.0l 4G63 Eagle Talon engine over and over again trying every combination of fuel management, turbo sizing, exhaust, ignition, cams, timing, etc... to better my 330ft and 660ft times (true show of power and traction) and nothing worked. UNTIL I built a 2.4l with the exact same setup and gained a TON of low end power that the smaller displacement just couldn't make.

How does your failure of building race engines relate to the ecoboost? This is comical and brought a smile to my face and I thank you for that. You have mentioned this failure in the past along with some other funny material. It was worth my while to dig it up for everyone's enjoyment. Your quote from 7/15/12:

"I've built hundreds of turbo-charged engines. There is just no way to make a small displacement turbo engine make big low end power. And you don't understand the concept of GEARING! Torque means NOTHING!
Horsepower is measured and Torque is a calculated number based solely on rpms. I can make a lawnmower make more "torque" than your diesel truck but it won't pull a trailer as well.
This is also why the 8 speed HEMI with 400 hp will get better fuel mileage than then the Ecoboost plus pull better with a simple NA V8 pushrod engine."

Please provide information on the lawnmower engine design you figured out. Many of us tractor enthusiast痴 are salivating.

BTW your stuck in the early days with your "no replacement for displacement" "fact". Back in the eighty's, I saw gearheads wearing those t-shirts because they had no desired to learn about Volumetric Efficiency. Didn't know there were still those lost in the eighty's.

 

[Dmace]

Why do you think the tq converter is so special for the Ecoboost? It uses the same one as the 3.7L V6 uses. Ford has one part for the V6 engines, and another for the V8.

EXACTLY!
It's the same one used on the other V6 ! WHY? Because just like the Ecoboost, it cannot make the low end power of the large displacement V8's so it needs that drivetrain help. Again, there's no way to increase HP mechanically but torque easily be manipulated with gearing which is what is happening there. Once the turbos spool, the HP comes on and that's the nice flat curve you see but it still takes RPMs to get there.
Look at the original dyno produced by pickuptrucks.com that shows the 5.0l making that low end power much sooner. Obviously this proved Ford's marketing scam and Ford jumped in quickly to do it again but while making changes to the dyno and truck to make it "look" better.
What We're Testing This Week: 2011 Ford F-150 EcoBoost 3.5-liter V-6 - PickupTrucks.com News

Throughout the tests, the 5.0 demonstrated a healthy torque curve that looks broader and less peaky than the EcoBoost, though at a lower level of power. It also shows off the engine's ability to steadily wind up power all the way up to redline.

Look at the Torque curve of the 5.0l, now make that a 5.7l and that whole line would jump by 50+ hp and tq above that Ecoboost torque curve.
Dyno runs are made in 3rd or 4th gear where the trans ratio is 1.00:1 or close and the torque converter is locked. The dyno calculates power using rear axle gearing. Now take that 1.00:1 trans ratio and change it electronically like the Ecoboost does. Magically, your torque rises but it's due to gearing not power. It's similar to a 2 speed rear end electronically changing for you. VW uses a similar system where it uses one axle ratio for 1st-5th and another for 6th.

Does it work? Yes, the Ecoboost is a performer but only equal to it's V8 competition and even other Ford offerings.
Is it worth the all the extra stuff to break for similar overall performance? Not in my opinion, which is exactly what this thread is about. Everyones opinion on what they don't need on a truck.

No one would have a problem if someone said they don't need the HEMI MDS or 8 speed tranny and their opinion would be respected but say something about a Ford and watch the witch hunters come out. The biggest whiners in the pen...

 

[Reyer Farms]

First off until last year the only trucks I owned were Toyota and GM. Three toyotas 2 tacomas and 1 truck. GM range from 3 4x4 half tons, 5 2500 HD 4x4, 1 ton. I was die hard Chevy. Then they came out with the half the engine cuts off. I did not like that and still don't. Just give me all my motor please. My wife had a 3/4 dodge 4x4 company truck and it was nice but the brakes were crap. I bought a "egoboost" as some call it. I bought into the hype and videos. I have never been as overall satisfied with any pickup. It does everything pretty good. I call it a tube sock truck. I dare to say I do prefer it to the duramax I had, defiantly has more pull from a dead stand still. We will see how it holds up and pulls over time. It has 50k on it now.
I don't need :
More than 6 speeds
An automatic
A navigation screen
Electric control gas pedal
Fertilizer fill in my diesel
Multi tech crap frames
Smurf bars
Crap factory bumpers
Auto door locks at speed or transmission setting
Aluminum anywhere
All the stinking safety crap
Huge wheels
A tv
Half on half off motor
Abs
New traction controls
Hill whatever assist
Number 1 most annoying is the dang seatbelt bell!!!
If they make trucks that work as well as that bell you would only wear out two in a lifetime.

 

[Dmace]

All nonsense! You are the ONLY person to state the ecoboost doesn't make low rpm power. Every review, publication, and personal experience I have ever seen speaks of this. What is your source of information? I have a boost gage in my truck and can EASILY get 13 psi of boost at 2000 rpms.

This is a much better dyno showing the real output of the Ecoboost without as much drivetrain interference.

There are two interesting items to note about our EcoBoost's dyno results. First, peak torque occured further up the power band (4,150 rpm) than what Ford claims at the crankshaft (2,500 rpm).

Also,

Throughout the tests, the 5.0 demonstrated a healthy torque curve that looks broader and less peaky than the EcoBoost, though at a lower level of power. It also shows off the engine's ability to steadily wind up power all the way up to redline.

Just look at the difference in Torque curves for the two engines. The 5.0l is flatter and comes on sooner. Now take that same torque curve and apply it to a larger 5.7l engine similar in design to the 5.0l and you'll have the same flat torque curve but about 50+ higher. Like I've said too many times, a larger displacement direct injected engine will certainly produce equal or better results all around than the Ecoboost and not need the drivetrain trickery the small V6's do.

I have already answered the torque converter question. Why do I need to again?

Because your "answer" was nothing more than an excuse. Desirable Characteristic...? Really? How about the fact that it needs it and the V8's don't!

How does your failure of building race engines relate to the ecoboost?

Far from failure, I was able to prove my idea that you cannot replace larger displacement no matter how much "volume" you cram in there. Sure I could have geared the trans differently and yielded faster short times but lost in the long run to 1320ft. In the same context, the Ecoboost cannot perform similar to other V8's without more gearing.

Please provide information on the lawnmower engine design you figured out. Many of us tractor enthusiast are salivating.

Once again, it's all about gearing. Assuming you don't know how to calculate Torque to the wheels of an auto, we'll stick to a simple formula not adjusting for transmission or parasitic loses. So Engine Torque x Trans Gear Ratio x Rear Axle Ratio = Wheel Torque (add in RPM's and you have BHP).
So using that formula, I have calculated the rear wheel torque of your Ecoboost using the given gear ratios and rear axle ratio. I have also calculated what gearing would be needed to return the same wheel torque from my 20lb.ft lawnmower. It can be done! It won't be fast (high rpms, low HP) but with that ridiculously low gearing, both engines would produce the same Torque at the wheels.

Still not getting it?

 

[jejeosborne]

I bought a "egoboost" as some call it. I bought into the hype and videos. I have never been as overall satisfied with any pickup. It does everything pretty good. I call it a tube sock truck. I dare to say I do prefer it to the duramax I had, defiantly has more pull from a dead stand still. We will see how it holds up and pulls over time. It has 50k on it now.

Oh no, did you just say what I thought you said?

I bought the hype too and have only had to have the slip yoke on the drive shaft re-greased. It was catching and making a slight bump when coming to a stop.

One thing I cannot get used to is the two stage turn signal stalk. I still will activate the wrong setting about twice a week.

 

[Dmace]

What is such the big deal with torque below 2000RPM?

You Ecoboost fans are the ones making a big deal out of Torque below 2000 RPMs! And now you say What's the big deal? Hilarious!

Dynos don't care about gearing phor the torque numbers. I beleive you are confused on what torque is.

Dyno's don't care about gearing?
I think your confused what a dyno is...
Here, read up: http://www.hotrod.com/techfaq/hrdp_0405_chassis_dyno_guide/viewall.html
There's a reason for that 1.00:1 gear for dyno pulls and why rear axle ratio is needed to calculate.

I don't need a Eshift dial, start stop, and air suspension (which does not work on cars and SUV's). US "phord phans" are not the biggest whiners in the pen. It is actually the Phiat guys. I guess the are upset because the little Ecoboost PH-150 will out run their big Hemi. No one would have a problem if you said you did not like the ecoboost. Everyone is entitled to their own opion but you keep on bashing it and beating the same old dead horse.

You don't need those things and that's your opinion. Now is anyone gonna come on here and say

Why are you happy with stopping technology?

I won't, I don't think we need Start/Stop technology either but we will find great efficiencies in combining Direct Injected Atkinson Stlye engines along with a Multi Displacement System for light loads.

 

[Reyer Farms]

Oh no, did you just say what I thought you said?

I bought the hype too and have only had to have the slip yoke on the drive shaft re-greased. It was catching and making a slight bump when coming to a stop.

One thing I cannot get used to is the two stage turn signal stalk. I still will activate the wrong setting about twice a week.

I love the turn the turn signal! I only use them as a last resort in case other drives fail to cower to me. yep I laugh at my own jokes. Now that's phunny !