Tornadoes!

[txdon]

That is ignorance overlooking the facts that someday a tornado could hit your school with small children inside and no place to properly be safe. Why do you have shelters in your homes then

In the broad sense you are right. Every death (except TMB) can to traced to some ignorance, some more obvious than others. Sometimes you just have to make the best choices at the time of the emergency and try to survive with the hand you were dealt.

 

[k0ua]

My worry would be that something would land on the door and block it, then that no one would make it out to check on us... Reminds me of the quote from Dune: "Any man who retreats into a cave which has only one opening deserves to die" (page 212 in my copy of Dune)

Aaron Z

One thing you do with shelter doors, is that they open inward, and you have tools inside to be able to dig your way out. Another is for example in OK City there is a registry for storm shelters, You register your shelter, and its location so first responders have a clue where you are. Nothing is foolproof, and will guarantee your survival, but your chances with the shelter are far better than without it. I know there are some school districts that have storm shelters on their campus in Arkansas, because I saw them being built.

James K0UA

 

[aczlan]

One thing you do with shelter doors, is that they open inward, and you have tools inside to be able to dig your way out.

I agree that inward opening doors would be good, the the linked picture has hinges on the outside which would appear to indicate that the door opens out:

Something to look into before spending $3k on such a shelter.

Another is for example in OK City there is a registry for storm shelters, You register your shelter, and its location so first responders have a clue where you are. Nothing is foolproof, and will guarantee your survival, but your chances with the shelter are far better than without it.

Ah, that makes sense.

Aaron Z

 

[Western]

Aaron, I thought the same thing about the door. I like the idea of safety pins that would allow the door to be totally removed if needed. The vents, well look pretty much like "eye candy" too. Dont think they could withstand 100mph piece of debris? According to FEMA, you should have some type of bottle jack (and other hand tools) stored in the shelter to aid in escape. All in all, I would take this one over a bathroom though.

I have also considered building one above ground or semi buried, made from poured concrete. FEMA plans are readily available for the minimum standard.

 

[dmccarty]

FEMA has designs specifications for storm shelters on their website. These include shelters built in basements, outside, closets, etc.

When I designed our house I looked at the designs that are integrated with a closet or small room. They are not expensive to do but they can limit the use of the space somewhat. In the end, I rolled the dice after doing some research. My county for some reason has very few tornadoes. :confused3: And the vast majority of the tornadoes we do get are small F0 and F1 storms that our house could easily survive. I think we could survive in our house in an F2 and likely even an F3 storm without a storm shelter. Our county has not had a death from a tornado for over 60 years which has to be from the low number and low strength of the storms. The tornado out break we had in 2011 was bad and I helped clean up a house that was one of three destroyed by a F3 storm. Two people did die in two of the houses that were completely destroyed. This was Down East where most NC tornadoes pop up. Having said that, we had a F3 that popped up south of us and ran all of the way into Raleigh and a few F0's even closer. This was from the same storm cluster that threw out a lightning bolt out of a clear sky and hit a tree near the house. I had wanted to go split wood but decided skip the work since the storms were on the way. I figured I could have gotten in 3-4 hours of work before getting rained out but I decided it was not worth it. If I had been working, I would have been under the big oak tree that got zapped by lightning. :shocked:

If we lived in a higher threat area we would have a storm shelter. The house design is such that we have several small, interior rooms that would provide protection from any tornado we are likely to ever have in the county. If it was an F4 or F5 it would a different story and a storm shelter is the only real hope for survival.

I saw a storm track of the OK storm overlaid with a tornado in 1999. Those two tracks almost perfectly matched. Unreal.

Later,
Dan

 

[greasemonkeyok]

It is easy to second guess and say could'a, should'a, would'a.

But take a look at the train trestle over the river that was twisted like a pretzel. There is NOT a lot of sail area on a train trestle.

The energy that was unleased in all directions on the structures is just incomprehensible. It is not like a straight-line wind. Add to that the fact that blowing debris acts just like shotgun pellets, I doubt that structures could be reasonably built to withstand every possible circumstance. If you have propane or natural gas, even underground storm shelters pose some risk.

 

[dave1949]

A dome-shaped structure made out of concrete would withstand quite a bit. It is no weaker from one direction than another.

 

[Mickey_Fx]

This is another disaster beyond belief but not the first one for this area. Wife has family in the area, just E of Moore. All of family do have shelters and have needed to use them more than once. We were in the area just 2 months ago. So much new construction in Moore and just S in Norman and now much of it lays in waste.

Called family Sun evening and they had just gotten out of their shelter. They were being hit by hail up to the size of baseball. They sustained enough damage on Sun they are going to have to have a new roof put on the house. Don't know how much structural damage done.

Wife's cousin runs the greater OKC emergency call center. I'm sure they have been flooded by calls in last couple days. We got a tour of the place and cousin said the walls were 2' thick and could take a 200 mph storm. Looks like from what I've been watching, this storm did pack winds up to 200 mph.

We need to call again to see if Mon's storm did any more damage to any of the family's homes.

If you can afford it, both the Red Cross and the Salvation Army could use donations for their efforts in this area.

 

[k0ua]

I agree that inward opening doors would be good, the the linked picture has hinges on the outside which would appear to indicate that the door opens out:

Something to look into before spending $3k on such a shelter.


Ah, that makes sense.

Aaron Z

yeah if even a small tree fell across that one, you would not even be able to wiggle past it... I don't like the hole in the ground type of shelter, as much as an above ground concrete structure with an inward opening door. I would have a good digging bar, big nail bar sledgehammer and a saw and a shovel inside. Of course the type shown in the photo is cheaper, but much more prone to flooding, and you being trapped inside.

James K0UA

 

[dmccarty]

The F3 that hit Down East NC in 2011 pick up a house and flipped it over. The house was a modular house built out of two units that were on a foundation but strapped down. The tornado picked one side of the house and the straps broke like a zipper from one side of the house to the other. It looks like the front module rotated over the back module and was thrown to the ground on its roof. You could see the indention in the ground where the roof hit. It looked like the back module was pushed/lifted of the foundation. Both sections where 20-30 feet from the foundation in a pile of rubble. The homeowner was found dead just outside of what was the front module.

A home across the road, actually it might have been two homes, I just could not tell from the rubble, was hit first the tornado. Two men, a father and son were in the house(s), and the father had a severe injury to his leg that killed him. The son survived. Part of the house(s) was on the other side of the road and looked like a house HAD been in that spot. A third home, single wide, had been pick up and rotated 90 degrees. Debris was every where. If the tornado had gone 50-100 yards north or south the houses would have been spared.

The woman who was killed was the aunt of a coworker and we went down to help recover what ever house hold goods we could. There were people from the community helping clean up and eventually a church group from VA came down and helped as well. While we recovered some important possessions, I found a photo hundreds of yards away from the house(s) were the man was killed that belong to his family and was very important to them, helping out was beneficial mentally for the survivors. Just seeing all of these people, mostly total strangers, helped them immensely. The survivors, even days after the storm, are in shock and overwhelmed by the loss of family members and the destruction of their homes. Having people help clean up helps the survivors in so many ways.

If you have a chance to help out, if even for just one day, do so. It will help your soul and theirs. Just wear good boots, long pants, take gloves, tools and be careful.

Later,
Dan