I recently purchased a 1969 Case 580CK backhoe and am having trouble trying to dig with it. It very possible that its me not really knowing what I am doing. I decided to watch backhoe videos on line to get started. Every video that I watched showed the operator using the boom and the dipper together in order to dig. My problem is that if I use the dipper the boom stops moving and if I start to use the boom the dipper stops moving. Am I doing something wrong? The operators guide for the 580ck says that you shouldn't dig with the boom for some reason. How can you dig a nice level footing if you can only swing the dipper and the bucket? You will always get an arched hole. I checked all the fluids and the are at the correct level. Any advice? I have the controls on the machine that has an individual lever for each function one for boom, one for dipper, one fro bucket, and two for outriggers BTW.
CASE 580CK Digging problems - me or the machine?
- Thread starter dstankus
- Start date
- Views: 14409
DJ54
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2009
- Messages
- 4,629
- Location
- Carroll, Ohio
- Tractor
- IH Farmall 656 gas/ IH 240 Utility/ 2, Super C Farmalls/ 2, Farmall A's/ Farmall BN/McCormick-Deering OS-6/McCormick-Deering O-4/ '36 Farmall F-12/ 480 Case hoe. '65 Ford 2000 3 cyl., 4 spd. w/3 spd Aux. Trans
What RPM's are you operating at..?? You ought to be at a minimum of 1200. And, what is the angle of attack, so to speak. Point of the teeth should be going directly into the dirt, in the direction of travel pulling towards you. Basically shave several inches of dirt, in an upward arc, to fill the bucket. Not just hog a bucket full out in the length of the bucket. You should be able to crowd in, and boom up in a fluid motion.
Once up out of the trench, swing, crowd out, uncurl bucket, swing back to trench, and boom down. Set the bucket pretty well on the flat bottom, or heel of the bucket, maybe slightly pointed down, to get a bite, depending on material, starting once again at the bottom of the trench just before it starts arcing up to get a touch of adjustment. Setting on the flat heel of the bucket should keep you fairly well on grade.
Plus, shaving the dirt, and not cramming the bucket full will allow the dirt to fall out, while in that motion, and not have to stop, and hammer it out of the bucket.
A Case hoe, compared to a Ford or John Deere are a little weak in the poop as far as digging comparitively...
Seat time is the best teacher. 400-500 hrs+ in the seat, and you'll get the hang of it.
Once up out of the trench, swing, crowd out, uncurl bucket, swing back to trench, and boom down. Set the bucket pretty well on the flat bottom, or heel of the bucket, maybe slightly pointed down, to get a bite, depending on material, starting once again at the bottom of the trench just before it starts arcing up to get a touch of adjustment. Setting on the flat heel of the bucket should keep you fairly well on grade.
Plus, shaving the dirt, and not cramming the bucket full will allow the dirt to fall out, while in that motion, and not have to stop, and hammer it out of the bucket.
A Case hoe, compared to a Ford or John Deere are a little weak in the poop as far as digging comparitively...
Seat time is the best teacher. 400-500 hrs+ in the seat, and you'll get the hang of it.
RedNeckRacin
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2008
- Messages
- 2,506
- Location
- Western PA
- Tractor
- John Deere 5083E MFWD, Kubota L3400 HST
those older 3 stick hoes are what I learned on. You really need to get a hydraulic pressure guage because it sounds like if you technique is correct your hydraulic pump is shot. The only way to check and know for sure is to check it. Good luck! You dont need to run those older hoes wide open either, it makes them very jerky if your not silky smooth with the operation.
Yikes - I don't like the sound of having to get a new hydraulic pump. I will get a pressure gauge and run through the tests outlined in the service manual. So it sounds like the act of moving one of the cylinders consumes too much of the pressurized fluid to allow other cylinders to operate like they should.
AGRIMAN
Platinum Member
I bought my first backhoe last year (580 E 4x4) for use around the farm. I knew a little about the mechanics and just enough about operating it to be dangerous. The first day that I ready tried to use it, I could hardly hit the ground with the bucket. I could have dug more with a shovel. I was sure that it was just me, but I had a friend who has been running Case 580’s for 30 years to come by and it didn’t take long for me to see the problem. He started playing around with it and it was as if he was digging with his hands. He could make it do anything he wanted and he was smooth… no jerking or banging around. He was getting full buckets of dirt with every pass. He did say it was a little weak but not bad.
I got back on it and toward the end of the day I finally started to get the hang of it. My biggest problem was bucket angle, once I got the hang of pulling the boom and curling the bucket at the same time…. I could do something. After several month and many hours in the seat, I can do pretty much what I want now.
It’s a good idea to check your hydraulic pressure to be sure it ok, but don’t overlook the fact that the operator has as much to do with it as anything.
I got back on it and toward the end of the day I finally started to get the hang of it. My biggest problem was bucket angle, once I got the hang of pulling the boom and curling the bucket at the same time…. I could do something. After several month and many hours in the seat, I can do pretty much what I want now.
It’s a good idea to check your hydraulic pressure to be sure it ok, but don’t overlook the fact that the operator has as much to do with it as anything.
RedNeckRacin
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2008
- Messages
- 2,506
- Location
- Western PA
- Tractor
- John Deere 5083E MFWD, Kubota L3400 HST
like agri-man said, it has ALOT to do with operator ability with those three stick hoes, they are their own special animal to be good at operating them. That being said, you should easily be able to dig full or nearly full buckets unless your in tough rocky conditions. Clay and topsoil shouldnt pose any problems. Now on that note, you should be able to boom up, crowd in and roll your bucket all at the same time.
Turbys_1700
Elite Member
You think 3 stick is bad, try a 3141 International backhoe...
That is what I learned on...
Takes a 4 handed Orangutan to run it...
That is what I learned on...
Takes a 4 handed Orangutan to run it...
RedNeckRacin
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2008
- Messages
- 2,506
- Location
- Western PA
- Tractor
- John Deere 5083E MFWD, Kubota L3400 HST
You really dont need the flow meter. IF you have the pressure checked and its within your machines parameters per your owners manual it should be perfectly fine.
Bob Rooks
Elite Member
I'm not at all familiar with your machine, but it sounds like your valves don't allow compound operation (two valves at once), or that your boom doesn't have a float detent on the valve. Have you tried pulling the boom valve lever back as far as it will go?
I have and that just brings the boom up super fast. I seem to be able to get the bucket to work with the dipper - so that's two functions - just cant get the dipper and the boom to work together. A good way to describe it is I have the boom moving in slowly, I then start to operate the dipper - bringing it in and as I ease onto the dipper, the boom stops moving and the dipper begins to move in - at this point no matter how much I pull in the boom stick it fails to move. Eventually I release the dipper stick and still holding the boom stick all the way back, the boom comes flying up towards the tractor and I have to stop it suddenly and the whole back hoe rattles and bangs around.
I have ordered a pressure gauge and my neighbor may have access to a flow meter. We will figure this out and I will post back what I find.
mjcountrybumpkin
Silver Member
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2012
- Messages
- 247
- Location
- SW VA.
- Tractor
- John Deere 5083e, Ford 4610, Ford 3000 (this ones family)
Have you changed hydraulic filter?screens?
Yes I did - the filter was very dirty and needed to be changed, but after I did I did not notice and change. The hydraulics for the CASE 580 CK only has a single filter.
Dirthog
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2005
- Messages
- 349
- Location
- pa
- Tractor
- Kubota L48 Kobelco sk100 Kobelco sko35 case 450 Mack R600
Redneck the pump will put out pressure but not always enough flow have seen that many times at work on the equipment we sell and service the Pressure = digging force the flow = speed.
I received my pressure gauge today and the pressure was right on the money. I saw 2200 PSI at the point that the main relief valve let go. I heard the motor load, but unfortunately my tach I not working - so its hard to tell the condition of the motor in all of this (based on the service manual). Next I will try to use my neighbors flow meter.
powerstroke444e
Veteran Member
The township were I grew up has an old case with suicide sticks like yours. If I remember correctly you can't use the boom and stick at the same time.
So I don't think there is anything wrong with your machine.
I spend may days cleaning ditches with machine and swore at it the whole time.
It you are just using it around your farm enjoy it should last forever.
If you need a perfect hole or digging for a living that's not the machine to use.
So I don't think there is anything wrong with your machine.
I spend may days cleaning ditches with machine and swore at it the whole time.
It you are just using it around your farm enjoy it should last forever.
If you need a perfect hole or digging for a living that's not the machine to use.
From the Case Service manual -
Actuating More Than One Cylinder
If two spools are actuated at the same time, the cylinder meeting with the least resistance will move first and continue to move until it meets with more resistance than the other cylinder.
Example: The stabilizer spools are at opposite ends of the valve bank. When both spools are pulled, both stabilizers will retract. However, if a man stands on one stabilizer pad, the opposite cylinder will move until it bottoms out. Then the other cylinder will retract.
So it looks like practicing moves in the air (without any resistance) is really not possible.
Actuating More Than One Cylinder
If two spools are actuated at the same time, the cylinder meeting with the least resistance will move first and continue to move until it meets with more resistance than the other cylinder.
Example: The stabilizer spools are at opposite ends of the valve bank. When both spools are pulled, both stabilizers will retract. However, if a man stands on one stabilizer pad, the opposite cylinder will move until it bottoms out. Then the other cylinder will retract.
So it looks like practicing moves in the air (without any resistance) is really not possible.
