Train - hazardous cargo "accident"

   / Train - hazardous cargo "accident"
  • Thread Starter
#31  
I read a better article earlier today, but can't seem to find it now. Sounds like the FD in the neighbouring town had to put out a fire on the locomotive - their first move was to shut down the engine, geared to dealing with fuel leaks. The other article indicated they were on the phone at the time with the railroad, advising what they had done.

I don't know much about locomotives, but I find it hard to believe there is no provision for parking brakes w/o the engine running. Try getting an automobile safetied using that story !

Nantes fire chief confirms late night fire before Lac-M鬯ッ?・??ョantic explosion

NANTES, Que. Firefighters in the small town of Nantes said they extinguished a fire in the locomotive of a train Friday night and left it in the hands of railway employees to secure.

A short while after the firefighters finished their job at the scene, the train broke away and careened downhill into nearby Lac-Megantic, causing a deadly explosion.

Fire Chief Patrick Lambert, the head of the 20-man department said one of his crews responded to a call for a fire in a train locomotive at 11:32 p.m. Friday, and when they arrived at the scene 10 minutes later, the 12 firefighters put out the fire, which originated in a fuel or oil line.

No employees from train company Montreal, Maine & Atlantic were present.

"They told me it's normal during a shift change", Lambert said, adding that by the time his men were done at 12:13 a.m., two MMA employees were on the scene.

Lambert acknowledged his men had done some joint training in fighting locomotive fires with MMA, but that training had nothing to do with the air brake system.

"We don't touch the brakes", he said. "We are not specialists on trains, we're not mechanics. Our specialty is putting out fires."
 
   / Train - hazardous cargo "accident" #32  
Does the gas made from this oil come back down into the states? Or is it sold in Canada? I can see why they send it north. It is 1312 miles from Minot ND to Houston. Maybe a pipeline to Milwaukee or Chicago would make more sense. Only eight hundred miles to Chicago.
 
   / Train - hazardous cargo "accident"
  • Thread Starter
#33  
Scooby may know the details of the harbour, but I recall the Irving refinery in NB being near the ocean - could be tankered out anywhere, but I suspect a lot of it would go to the US east coast by ship.

Rgds, D.
 
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   / Train - hazardous cargo "accident" #34  
Thanks for the info. I had heard the other stuff late the other night right after it happened. You know how the first reports turn out. But I was half asleep. They might have been saying it wasn't uncommon for trains to carry that sort of cargo.
I used to be a news junkie. Five years ago I went to the other extreme. Now if it isn't about racing, hoops or football, the only way I hear about it is on one of these threads. Although I did see somewhere today that rail safety is at 99.975%, and that pipelines were even safer. The difference is that the tracks always go right through the center of town.

Since the Brakken discovery crude shipment by train has gone up some astronomical number, im going by memory here, but it was something like 28000% since 2009. That doesnt look right, but I think its right.

EDIT: it is right! http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...have_increased_28000_per_cent_since_2009.html
 
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   / Train - hazardous cargo "accident" #35  
I read a better article earlier today, but can't seem to find it now. Sounds like the FD in the neighbouring town had to put out a fire on the locomotive - their first move was to shut down the engine, geared to dealing with fuel leaks. The other article indicated they were on the phone at the time with the railroad, advising what they had done.

I don't know much about locomotives, but I find it hard to believe there is no provision for parking brakes w/o the engine running. Try getting an automobile safetied using that story !

Nantes fire chief confirms late night fire before Lac-M鬯ッ?・??ョantic explosion

NANTES, Que. Firefighters in the small town of Nantes said they extinguished a fire in the locomotive of a train Friday night and left it in the hands of railway employees to secure.

A short while after the firefighters finished their job at the scene, the train broke away and careened downhill into nearby Lac-Megantic, causing a deadly explosion.

Fire Chief Patrick Lambert, the head of the 20-man department said one of his crews responded to a call for a fire in a train locomotive at 11:32 p.m. Friday, and when they arrived at the scene 10 minutes later, the 12 firefighters put out the fire, which originated in a fuel or oil line.

No employees from train company Montreal, Maine & Atlantic were present.

"They told me it's normal during a shift change", Lambert said, adding that by the time his men were done at 12:13 a.m., two MMA employees were on the scene.

Lambert acknowledged his men had done some joint training in fighting locomotive fires with MMA, but that training had nothing to do with the air brake system.

"We don't touch the brakes", he said. "We are not specialists on trains, we're not mechanics. Our specialty is putting out fires."

Just watched the Transport Minister Lebel.. not much good info there basically "thanks to all the first responders (I certainly concur)" and "we'll wait for the investigation to complete, but changes may be made". J.Trudeau is on the screen now.:rolleyes:

Something interesting being suggested by the Railroad, is that the Fire Department that fought the fire turned off the engine while putting out the small fire leading to the accident. The rail company has also suggested that it could have been anybody that turned off the engine, the cab was unlocked and there are external emergency shutdowns. They also said that both the internal and external shutdowns were activated. Has the blame game begun?
 
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   / Train - hazardous cargo "accident" #36  
Does the gas made from this oil come back down into the states? Or is it sold in Canada? I can see why they send it north. It is 1312 miles from Minot ND to Houston. Maybe a pipeline to Milwaukee or Chicago would make more sense. Only eight hundred miles to Chicago.

Assuming it was going to Irving (which was suggested), I think they sell their gasoline to eastern Canada and the US. Definitely eastern Canada, but not Nova Scotia at this time. Its much, much cheaper for them to buy Brakken crude, even with shipping costs.

Scooby may know the details of the harbour, but I recall the Irving refinery in NB being near the ocean - could be tankered out anywhere, but I suspect a lot of it would go to the US east coast by ship.

Rgds, D.

The Irving refinery is on the ocean. They operate a large offshore loading buoy that can take the largest tankers in the world. Its the largest refinery in Canada, and one of the biggest in North America. They also operate a large Natural Gas import and storage facility.

I believe this crude train was destined to be refined by Irving, not sold as crude, but you never know with the Irvings... There is talk that Irving will begin export of Canadian tar sands oil, if the West - East pipeline ever gets built.
http://goo.gl/maps/FdxbY

A runaway train carrying crude oil from the Bakken formation derailed early July 6 in Lac Megantic, Que., resulting in fires and explosions that killed at least five people and left another 40 people missing, Canadian authorities said.

"The train was operated by Montreal Maine & Atlantic Railway Inc. (MMA), a division of Rail World Inc. The train had 72 carloads of crude bound for Irving Oil Ltd.'s refinery in Saint John, NB."

Deadly train derailment in Quebec carried Bakken crude - Oil & Gas Journal

This isnt the first shipment of Brakken to Irving that ran into issues. Last year a tanker ran aground on the Hudson River carrying Brakken for Irving. Note the major cost difference between Shale (Brakken) and North Sea Brent at the time the article was written... Brakken was $23/bbl cheaper!

"efiners including Valero Energy Corp. (VLO) and Irving are seeking to use less-expensive U.S. crude in eastern Canadian plants rather than more expensive cargoes from across the Atlantic Ocean.

摘xports to Canada will probably pick up quite a bit in the next year, said Amrita Sen, chief oil market analyst for Energy Aspects Ltd. in London. 典he repercussions will have more to do with how much the U.S. continues to displace West Africa. That痴 the one that really competes with Brent. "

Tanker Carrying Bakken Oil to Canadian Refinery Runs Aground - Bloomberg
 
   / Train - hazardous cargo "accident" #37  
There are two ways to shut down the fifth unit: There痴 an emergency lever on the outside of the locomotive that anyone wandering by could access. Or, there are a number of levers and buttons inside the unlocked cabin.

Both means were used, said Burkhardt.

Holy crap.
 
   / Train - hazardous cargo "accident" #38  
Holy crap.

It wasnt just the external Estop that was activated, but the internal ones were too.

Now bear in mind its from the railroad, but was there Sabotage? Or perhaps negligence (not intentional) on the part of the fire fighters who were there earlier fighting a small fire on the train???
 
   / Train - hazardous cargo "accident"
  • Thread Starter
#39  
Holy crap.

What I can't get out of my mind is "The engine has to be running, for the Ebrake to work". Concept, not exactly a direct quote.

I can't get a small car certified (Safety checked) in this province, (to say nothing of a commercial truck) if I told that story.

How is is that megaton trains are allowed to operate this way ? Run out of fuel, fuel filter blocks, engine management computer decides there is a fault that requires shutdown, kid walking down the track flicks a switch...... the list goes on.

If even some of this reporting is true, I find it seriously mind-boggling that this nonsense is allowed.

There are other words that come to mind, but I can't let them flow through the keyboard as that would lead to a suspension of my TBN account.

:confused2:

Rgds, D.
 
   / Train - hazardous cargo "accident" #40  
What I can't get out of my mind is "The engine has to be running, for the Ebrake to work". Concept, not exactly a direct quote.

I can't get a small car certified (Safety checked) in this province, (to say nothing of a commercial truck) if I told that story.

How is is that megaton trains are allowed to operate this way ? Run out of fuel, fuel filter blocks, engine management computer decides there is a fault that requires shutdown, kid walking down the track flicks a switch...... the list goes on.

If even some of this reporting is true, I find it seriously mind-boggling that this nonsense is allowed.

There are other words that come to mind, but I can't let them flow through the keyboard as that would lead to a suspension of my TBN account.

:confused2:

Rgds, D.

There are manual hand wheels to set the brakes on each car and the engines. I cant believe that the proper procedure was to rely on an unattended engine to supply braking air. Why arent the hand wheels applied when the train is left unattended?

From what I seen so far, it appears that the procedure of leaving the train running to supply air is the standard procedure.
 

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