Advice needed for road travel while pulling a trailer

[kiotiken]

OK, I'm very seriously considering taking my DK45 on a little road trip this weekend and would like any opinions or advice.

We recently finished a kitchen reno. While we were looking for the counter tops, we were having trouble choosing the granite so my "granite guy" sent me to one last place to look. When I got there, the place was empty, but I noticed some people behind the building, so I went back to talk and asked if they'd moved. It was actually one of the neighbors who told me the granite people did a midnight move a few months ago and the owners of the building were desperate to get rid of the remaining granite because new tenants were coming in. So last week, I went back and talked to the owner of the building who told me I could take it all, including the large steel frame, for $200. Even though our kitchen is done, I have plenty of projects for it floating in my head like a new kitchen table, counter top at the cottage and a BBQ zone on my deck so I don't have to move the BBQ away from the house. I LOVE natural stone, and can't wait to cook up plenty more projects given the huge amount of stone I'll have kicking around. Plus, once it's done, I'll convert the rack to a steel and wood holder which will be worth the $200 alone.

So, my neighbour is letting me borrow his trailer and was originally going to help me with his truck. He's not available anymore so I've decided to pull the trailer with my tractor. I'd estimate the trailer is near 2000# and I'll take a guess at about 3000# - 4000# for all the granite and that's way past what I can pull with my wifes van (3500# tow cap.). I'd also like to take my time loading the granite with no pressure and I'm worried the small forklift the building owner has won't have enough reach to place the granite on the center of the trailer. My tractor should be just about perfect for the job BUT I have a few concerns that I'd like opinions on.

1) It's 27 KM (16.5 miles) each way, but it's all paved. My tractor is a 2012 DK45 HST with 110 hrs. It's about 4hrs past due for an oil change and there's NO way I'll be able to get that done before leaving Sat. morning.
2) The trip will take approx 1.25 hrs each way and it's supposed to be around 30C (86F) on Sat, MUCH hotter on the asphalt I'm sure. I will leave as early as possible to beat the heat, but it depends on when they'll be there to open the gate. I worry I'm pushing my tractor hard on a fairly hot day.
3) The trailer has a pintle hitch so I'll have to use a hitch receiver on my 3pt hitch instead of the draw bar. No idea what the tongue weight will be, I'm more concerned about the stress on 3pt from towing approx. 5000# - 6000#
4) My tractor is HST. I only have 1 large hill to worry about going down with the full load and one with just the trailer. Should I stop and use 4 X 4? Will the HST be enough to keep it under control? Are the breaks going to be enough for an emergency stop either on the hill or on the road?
5) Does my tractor have a tow rating?

One piece of granite weighs about 1000# on it's own and I'll be lifting it from above using a sling. Since I'll be pulling a trailer, I won't have anything other than my loaded tires for ballast. It's a paved lot, which helps, but I'll be at full or near full height to lift it on to the trailer, so it should be "interesting".

So, anybody have anything I should keep in mind, any reason I shouldn't do it or any concerns about my tractors ability to do the job? I love granite, but it's not worth destroying my tractor or getting myself killed over. I will definitely be wearing my seat belt for this ride!

 

[MotorSeven]

I think your 3 point can handle the weight, just go easy. I would not worry about the oil thing at all. The heat should not be an issue either, as I have brush hogged and hayed in 100 degree heat. Yes used the 4x4 anytime when going down a hill with a heavy load and I speak from experience. The HSt will keep it under control, but in 2wd it can be dang scary especially on gravel. I don't know the tow rating, but my Ck30 pulled out a full sized Chev pick up that had run off the road and was vertical 40' down a steep incline...didn't even grunt.

My biggest concern is the lift without ballast. 1K will be interesting for sure. I think I would throw a counter weight on the trailer just in case or your trip may be for naught. Place the trailer and approach on dead level ground and before you leave top off your front tire air pressure to max. Sling the thing back at the pins, not out on the bucket or forks, low range go slow and easy.

Sounds like something I would do.....a scavenger at heart{cough}/dumpster diver..........post up some pic's!

 

[MarkV]

I'd be most concerned about lack of braking on the trailer. That will be a heavy load that will try to push the tractor on any type of grade. The other concern would be towing off the 3pt arms. Remember the arms do not lock in one position so they can float up as the grade changes.

MarkV

 

[kiotiken]

I think your 3 point can handle the weight, just go easy. I would not worry about the oil thing at all. The heat should not be an issue either, as I have brush hogged and hayed in 100 degree heat. Yes used the 4x4 anytime when going down a hill with a heavy load and I speak from experience. The HSt will keep it under control, but in 2wd it can be dang scary especially on gravel. I don't know the tow rating, but my Ck30 pulled out a full sized Chev pick up that had run off the road and was vertical 40' down a steep incline...didn't even grunt.

My biggest concern is the lift without ballast. 1K will be interesting for sure. I think I would throw a counter weight on the trailer just in case or your trip may be for naught. Place the trailer and approach on dead level ground and before you leave top off your front tire air pressure to max. Sling the thing back at the pins, not out on the bucket or forks, low range go slow and easy.

Sounds like something I would do.....a scavenger at heart{cough}/dumpster diver..........post up some pic's!

Well, I'd love to throw the box blade or blower on the trailer to use as ballast, but I've decided to build my own wood "A" frame on the trailer so I can move granite directly from the steel frame to the trailer and I also want to bring my pallet forks in case I need them. After loading up the granite, I'll need space for the steel "A" frame as well as the pallet forks so I just don't think I'll have room for anything else.

 

[kiotiken]

I'd be most concerned about lack of braking on the trailer. That will be a heavy load that will try to push the tractor on any type of grade. The other concern would be towing off the 3pt arms. Remember the arms do not lock in one position so they can float up as the grade changes.

MarkV

hmm, now you have me concerned. That's a very good point with the 3pt being able to float up, I can't believe I didn't think about that. That would be a very scary thing to have the trailer slam to the top of the 3pt range while going down the hill. Not having anyway to use the trailer brakes is a big concern of mine although I really don't have any huge hills to come down. I may consider changing my route and going straight through town to say on almost level ground.

 

[aczlan]

If the trailer has brakes, you can setup a heavy switch (or a cheap brake controller) to let you manually apply power to them.
If you load the trailer nose heavy lifting the tongue when stopping or going downhill shouldn't be a problem.

Aaron Z

 

[joshuabardwell]

Don't use 4x4 on pavement. Will mess up the differential. Slippery surfaces only.

Why not use the van and take several trips? Or rent a truck for a half day? I'd consider it just to avoid the hour plus drive on the tractor.

 

[aczlan]

Don't use 4x4 on pavement. Will mess up the differential. Slippery surfaces only.
Why not use the van and take several trips? Or rent a truck for a half day? I'd consider it just to avoid the hour plus drive on the tractor.

Better to risk messing up the diff then slide through a stop sign or run someone over because you cant stop...

Aaron Z

 

[joshuabardwell]

Also, a chain from the top link to the drawbar will keep the three point down... but if you raise the lever, you'll destroy something!

 

[kiotiken]

If the trailer has brakes, you can setup a heavy switch (or a cheap brake controller) to let you manually apply power to them.
If you load the trailer nose heavy lifting the tongue when stopping or going downhill shouldn't be a problem.

Aaron Z

I'll load the granite at the front of the trailer. As long as I don't have more than about 2500# of tongue weight, the tractor should be fine with that.

Don't use 4x4 on pavement. Will mess up the differential. Slippery surfaces only.

Why not use the van and take several trips? Or rent a truck for a half day? I'd consider it just to avoid the hour plus drive on the tractor.

I was thinking of stopping at the top of the hill and switching to 4X4 for the hill only. The only real hill is straight with no turns, hopefully that keeps everything turning at the same rate. I'm going to have to think about detouring around that hill now.

Also, a chain from the top link to the drawbar will keep the three point down... but if you raise the lever, you'll destroy something!

I love this idea. I'm building a hitch receiver tonight (been putting it off to long anyway), I'll add a spot to attach a chain to prevent it from running all the way to the top of the 3pt range.

 

[joshuabardwell]

I was thinking of stopping at the top of the hill and switching to 4X4 for the hill only.

So, two things. First, I think it still matters even if you're going straight, because the wheels are not perfectly synced, so there is still some binding in the diff between the front and rear axles. Second, given that you'll have the tongue weight of the trailer pressing down on the rear of the tractor, and that you'll be on pavement, my gut tells me that traction isn't going to be an issue. Either you'll have the power to get up the hill or you won't, the braking to stop or you won't, but whether you're pulling or stopping with four wheels or two won't really matter.

 

[kiotiken]

So, two things. First, I think it still matters even if you're going straight, because the wheels are not perfectly synced, so there is still some binding in the diff between the front and rear axles. Second, given that you'll have the tongue weight of the trailer pressing down on the rear of the tractor, and that you'll be on pavement, my gut tells me that traction isn't going to be an issue. Either you'll have the power to get up the hill or you won't, the braking to stop or you won't, but whether you're pulling or stopping with four wheels or two won't really matter.

You're right, what worries me a little is how powerful the brakes really are on a tractor. I think everybody has forgotten the parking brake once or twice and you can still move the tractor. I agree with you that the tractor will have all the traction in the world on a paved road. Will it have the braking power to stop that much weight down the hill is the big question.

Can relying on the HST to keep speed down damage the HST? Should I drop down to mid or low range to go down the hill and at what point to I start to put to much pressure on the HST?

 

[joshuabardwell]

Can relying on the HST to keep speed down damage the HST? Should I drop down to mid or low range to go down the hill and at what point to I start to put to much pressure on the HST?

I'm not any sort of expert on transmissions, but it doesn't seem to me like there should be any problem with using the transmission for "engine braking" as it were. Mid or low range would definitely be a good idea, since the alternative would be that the motor would get overloaded, bog down, and the tractor would begin to roll--analogous to if you were going up hill and lost power and slowed down.

 

[MotorSeven]

Don't use 4x4 on pavement. Will mess up the differential. Slippery surfaces only.

Why not use the van and take several trips? Or rent a truck for a half day? I'd consider it just to avoid the hour plus drive on the tractor.

Jeeze if that's the case my dif would have exploded a long time ago. A short run on pavement in 4x4 won't hurt anything except your tires. He is talking about going down hill and using it for equal(all 4 wheels) engine braking not just rear wheel braking which can and will get you into trouble quick. His trailer will weigh about as much as the tractor and if he takes it slow in low range he will be fine on dry pavement. Sudden stops, wet surface(s) etc are to be avoided...other than that ....Charlie Mike.

 

[MotorSeven]

Oh, and low range climbing a hill with a load too...4x4 not needed on pavement.

 

[kiotiken]

Well... I stopped by again and took another look what was there so I could plan the move on Saturday. Wow, there's at least 3 times as much granite as I thought. I'm going to guess 7000#-8000# of it if 18lbs per sq foot for 1.25" slab is correct. The trailer only has two 3500# axles, so I'm going to max out between 5000# - 6000#. Unfortunately, the guy won't help with his forklift, so even if I had a truck, I'd still have to bring the tractor to load and then drive home to unload. It's going to take 2 loads and each load is two trips of 1.25 hrs making it at least 5 hours assuming I can drive at my tractors max travel speed, as there's not much chance of that happening, especially with a load. So here's my next crazy idea. I'm thinking of loading the trailer to max cap., around 5000#, then loading the rest, 2000#-2500# onto my pallet forks (and strapping there of course) and carrying the whole thing in one trip. I'd have the trailer for ballast, but the whole rig would start to get REALLY heavy. I'll guess 7000# for the tractor with loaded tires, bucket and forks, 2000# for the trailer and 7500# of granite split between the loader and the trailer. Can I stop 16500# even on flat ground? Will I break the transmission, front axle or something else? Is that abuse of the tractor or something a tractor is meant to do?

 

[wcampbell47]

Rent, beg, buy, borrow a heavy duty 3/4 ton or 1 ton truck. You will live to tell the tale. Attach something on the rear of the tractor for ballast. Double check the GWR of the trailer and make sure the brakes work.

 

[joshuabardwell]

Rent, beg, buy, borrow a heavy duty 3/4 ton or 1 ton truck. You will live to tell the tale.

Seriously, this.

 

[aczlan]

Might be able to rent a Uhaul truck/van for cheapish. Those are usually a 1 ton vehicle and are rated to tow 6k# or more, just need brakes hooked up.

Aaron Z

 

[MotorSeven]

Rent, beg, buy, borrow a heavy duty 3/4 ton or 1 ton truck. You will live to tell the tale. Attach something on the rear of the tractor for ballast. Double check the GWR of the trailer and make sure the brakes work.

I agree, your estimate of weight could be still too conservative and this could be too much for the current equipment. Check with your tractor dealer and see if he has a truck/trailer you can "rent". Sounds like you are getting $10K worth of granite for free, so a couple hundred for a truck/trailer is a no brainer.