JD 317 with starter problem

[sixmenn]

Hey all,

For the past few months my JD 317 with Kohler Magnum 18 has been making a squealing noise when I engage the starter. It has always eventually "caught" and turned over, but it has worsened over time, until recently it won't turn over at all. I took the side panel off and examined the starter and flywheel, and it looks like some spots on the flywheel are worn down (presumably from the starter teeth just spinning against the flywheel teeth). When I manually line up the starter teeth with any part of the flywheel and then engage the starter, it engages the flywheel and turns over fine. It just doesn't seem able to line up or engage the flywheel on its own. Do I need a new starter? If so, do I need to remove the engine to get it out? Any suggestions where to get aftermarket parts?

Thanks everyone!

Colin

 

[BBO]

Kohler Magnum 18 has been making a squealing noise when I engage the starter. It has always eventually "caught" and turned over. Do I need a new starter? If so, do I need to remove the engine to get it out? Any suggestions where to get aftermarket parts?

First, when one spins, STOP and start over.
The starter is supposed to thrust the gear forward to engage the teeth. If you let it spin, partial engagement can damage the flywheel, PLUS the starter gear worse. If the flywheel is damaged, you got bigger problems than a $200 starter.

I'm not sure these parts are still available, but if you could get just the kit your old one might just need some parts inside.
View attachment 317_Starter.pdf

The solenoid can cause this but often it's the starter. (or at least some parts inside the starter)
View attachment 317_Wiring-Solenoid.pdf

I am not sure but this might be an option. I THINK your starter is a # AM38018, item 23. Verify all this before ordering anything!
New Starter for John Deere AM121406 or AM38013 1 Year Warranty

I looked for a price on item 15 Kit # AM38039, and item 21 Kit # AM38245 on GFP but for some reason they do not show these as good numbers.

 

[sixmenn]

If you let it spin, partial engagement can damage the flywheel, PLUS the starter gear worse. If the flywheel is damaged, you got bigger problems than a $200 starter

Yeah, I think that is what is happening with mine. There does appear to be some wearing down of the flywheel, but the starter's teeth are able to engage any part of the flywheel without binding or anything.

Some questions:

1. At what point is the flywheel too damaged?

2. The starter always activates when I turn the key, but doesn't engage the flywheel any more unless I line the two up. How can I tell whether this is a bad starter or a damaged flywheel teeth/damaged starter teeth issue?

3. Yesterday I removed the engine and removed the starter. It is a "United Technologies Automotive" brand, part number 5209812. A second number on the tag is 98050. Is there any way to test the starter to see whether it is maybe too "weak" to engage the flywheel?

4. Last, while I have the engine out, I'd like to take advantage of the fact and "tune it up". Anyone out there have recommendations as to what I should do to it?

Sorry, lots of questions for you all. Thanks for any help you can give me!

Colin

 

[BBO]

1. At what point is the flywheel too damaged?

I would say when teeth are missing and the starter breaks off more teeth

2. The starter always activates when I turn the key, but doesn't engage the flywheel any more unless I line the two up. How can I tell whether this is a bad starter or a damaged flywheel teeth/damaged starter teeth issue?

I would say it's the starter. Worn or not it seems the starter should still be strong enough to engage the flywheel.

3. Yesterday I removed the engine and removed the starter. It is a "United Technologies Automotive" brand, part number 5209812. A second number on the tag is 98050. Is there any way to test the starter to see whether it is maybe too "weak" to engage the flywheel?

A starter/alternator repair shop might be able to test it. Possibly Autozone? If you can determine how to energize it with 12V you might be able to bench test it.
You can Google those numbers to see if you can find one online, cheaper than whatever you have found. Is it possible this is not the original OEM starter already?

4. Last, while I have the engine out, I'd like to take advantage of the fact and "tune it up". Anyone out there have recommendations as to what I should do to it?

Air filter, gas filter, plugs etc. All fluids, sharpen blades

 

[sixmenn]

Thanks a lot, BBO.

It seems like going ahead with a new starter is the way to go, at least to start with. Thanks for the tune up recommendation, too.

Colin

 

[NickTaylor]

Be careful with non-OEM starter. I replaced my starter on 317 a few years ago with Chinese bargain part. Lasted about 2 starts until it failed completely. Had to replace again with OEM starter from Tulsa Engine Warehouse. By the time I was done figured out I didn't really have to pull the engine to replace start. Just remove right side engine mounts and brave up the engine. Have me enough room to get starter in & out. Good luck!

 

[NickTaylor]

Oh by the way, I'm pretty sure the technical manual provides a procedure for checking health of the starter windings. Vi originally replaced mine cuz it had enough power to spin when separated from engine, but wouldn't turn the flywheel when assembled. When I checked starter sure enough windings were damaged (not enough ohms to ground). Tech manual provides acceptable resistance values for primary and secondary windings. If you don't have the tech manual I can look them up tonight and post.

 

[sixmenn]

Be careful with non-OEM starter. I replaced my starter on 317 a few years ago with Chinese bargain part. Lasted about 2 starts until it failed completely. Had to replace again with OEM starter from Tulsa Engine Warehouse. By the time I was done figured out I didn't really have to pull the engine to replace start. Just remove right side engine mounts and brave up the engine. Have me enough room to get starter in & out. Good luck!

Thanks Nick. I called around with the specific intent of getting an American made starter, but kept hearing the same thing: no such thing anymore, even in brand new American made vehicles. So I ordered one from a supposed reputable ebay seller. I haven't installed it yet, but hope I have better luck than you did, as mine is non-OEM. I'll keep you posted.

Oh and thanks for the tip on not having to remove the engine. Hopefully I won't have to use it, but if my luck with my cheapie part is the same as yours, it'll come in handy!

 

[sixmenn]

Oh by the way, I'm pretty sure the technical manual provides a procedure for checking health of the starter windings. Vi originally replaced mine cuz it had enough power to spin when separated from engine, but wouldn't turn the flywheel when assembled. When I checked starter sure enough windings were damaged (not enough ohms to ground). Tech manual provides acceptable resistance values for primary and secondary windings. If you don't have the tech manual I can look them up tonight and post.

Thanks again, Nick. Yes, I would love to have that information. I poked around a long time on the internet trying to find that information but was unsuccessful. I would appreciate knowing that procedure.

 

[NickTaylor]

If you send me a message with email address I can send you the applicable pages out of the tech manual.