2014 chevy cruz diesel

[xring100]

I still think that GM is missing out by not offering a manual. No, not a manu-matic flappy paddle thing, but a traditional manual. It would allow you to get the most out of the engine. I think it would change the car;s feel completely.

Our old Jetta TD was very satisfying with the manual.

Agreed they didn't seem to do their research on vw tdi owners

 

[3930dave]

The Cruze eco manual has one of the highest rated EPA highway milage for non hybrid gas engine at 42 mpg it ties the vw diesel. So what if its not a gdi engine. that high pressure fuel pump is something people complain about in diesels when it comes time to fix it because they are so darn expensive. The ECO will generally give 43-46 mpg at 70 - 75 mph on summer fuel.

Hi Dave - just to clarify - even if I won a lottery, I'm in no particular rush to buy a DI gasoline engine. If I had to buy a new gas car tomorrow, it would be MPFI, for the reasons you list, amongst others.

While I have a strong interest in most forms of technical advancements, I prefer to spend my money on mature technologies like MPFI.

And.... I do get irritated by the tremendous increase in complexity, with little or no improvements in certain areas of performance. IE. Bosch mechanical gasoline fuel injection systems were delivering close to these mileages, in the late 1970's !

So yeah..... I'm more than OK with certain older technologies, and not automatically impressed by new tech "advancements".

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Agreed they didn't seem to do their research on vw tdi owners

As much as I like to see stick tranis offered..... if I was a VP of Marketing at GM, I wouldn't be in a big hurry to try and take on VW directly - tough competetion in this sector.

That last design article I linked gives an indication of the marketing spin GM wants on the diesel Cruze - "It's a performance engine (agreed) that happens to get pretty decent fuel mileage".

As "spin" goes, I can live with that marketingeze (as it's true).

In this case, the "Take it for a test drive, and see what you think" strategy is a pretty good one..... torque is easy to sell !

Rgds, D.

 

[Scooby074]

Agreed they didn't seem to do their research on vw tdi owners

Id love to know the percentage of VW owners in general who choose the stick. And what subset of diesel owners did as well. I bet its high.

Also love to see the breakdown of transmission choices for Canadians vs Americans

 

[WilliamBos]

The TDI, in my mind, is VW's best engine. We rented a 2.5 gas one once to drive back from Columbus to Charlottesville after taking a rental truck over. Didn't like the 2.5 at all. Never driven the 2.0 liter turbo gas one, but it has no where near the torque.

The TDI goes up the WVa mountains as though they're not there. Maintains cruise control speed up every one in 6th gear. My Tacoma pickup required 3rd gear on two of those mountains and, of course, would not maintain cruise speed.

It's like driving a VW with 2 cylinder thirst. Absolutely love it.

I second the motion of one responder who wants to see a small pickup with a 2.0 liter turbo diesel in it. Our old 1996 Tacoma with a VW TDI in it would be a wonder performer and would yield 50 mpg, as it was only 3,000 # (250 less than a Jetta). (Have a sorry 2005 Tacoma now; it's the one that won't make it up those WVa mountains other than 3rd gear; the older Tacoma would squirt right up the mountains and still yield 30 mpg.)

Canada may get the VW Amarok diesel pick up!!

 

[buickanddeere]

The stick still exists in some North American vehicles only because it was already engineered and manufactured for markets outside of the US and Canada . The typical North American driver doesn't know what a clutch pedal is for. The military went to all automatics a decade or two ago because recruits were grinding gears and smoking clutches.
Some people worry about GDI diluting lube oil or carboning the intake valves due to dry air in the intake port.Or concerned about the 2000-3000psi common rail injection system. Last time I checked diesels were direct injected and have no fuel flow through the intake port. Few people are concerned about lube oil dilution or stuck intake valves.2000-3000psi is the relm of the old diesels and not a serious problem. The new 20,000+psi common rail EPA diesels have injector problems.

 

[xring100]

Hi Dave - just to clarify - even if I won a lottery, I'm in no particular rush to buy a DI gasoline engine. If I had to buy a new gas car tomorrow, it would be MPFI, for the reasons you list, amongst others.

While I have a strong interest in most forms of technical advancements, I prefer to spend my money on mature technologies like MPFI.

And.... I do get irritated by the tremendous increase in complexity, with little or no improvements in certain areas of performance. IE. Bosch mechanical gasoline fuel injection systems were delivering close to these mileages, in the late 1970's !

So yeah..... I'm more than OK with certain older technologies, and not automatically impressed by new tech "advancements".

Rgds, D.

Okay i misunderstood i thought it was a technology you were regarding as the price of entry for considering a new car. Another interesting fact about the 1.4l turbo is that gm went back to an iron block. While this is mainly to help with engine noise as gm has been plagued with horrible noise and vibration on their aluminum block 4 cylinders for years. They were also able to keep the mass increase down to a minimum by optimizing the block design for that bore diameter. Because they don't need to sleeve an iron block the iron block is considerably smaller than the aluminum would have been.

I should provably disclose I'm a performance engineer at GM who works on the cruze platform. I've spent a lot of time in the eco and love it. If my wife didn't work for ford i would own an eco manual. We ended up getting a focus to add some balance to our fleet of 5 GM vehicles. I own 4 cars/trucks that are 96 and older. 2 1996 gm trucks first year for multi port once you upgraded from the central port. I'm not necessarily a fan of new technology either. I like being able to work on my own stuff.

Heres how i spent my weekend I'm retiring her with close to 200k the rear body structure was shot due too MI winter roads and chloride on the dirt roads. im saving all the usefull parts for my wife's 1995 sc1 with 235k miles. This is a summer only car for here. The engine and trans are under the car.





Sorry i didn't understand where you were going in your original post.

 

[3930dave]

Canada may get the VW Amarok diesel puck up!!

I'll keep my fingers crossed Will, that would be fantastic.

They might even be testing the market here, to see what the uptake is, before launching in the USA. A little easier sell with our fuel prices being higher, and diesel fuel typically priced a little lower than gas here.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

The stick still exists in some North American vehicles only because it was already engineered and manufactured for markets outside of the US and Canada . The typical North American driver doesn't know what a clutch pedal is for. The military went to all automatics a decade or two ago because recruits were grinding gears and smoking clutches.
Some people worry about GDI diluting lube oil or carboning the intake valves due to dry air in the intake port.Or concerned about the 2000-3000psi common rail injection system. Last time I checked diesels were direct injected and have no fuel flow through the intake port. Few people are concerned about lube oil dilution or stuck intake valves.2000-3000psi is the relm of the old diesels and not a serious problem. The new 20,000+psi common rail EPA diesels have injector problems.

I understand your points BaD.

I don't recall any recent post from you about it, but like many gearheads, I wouldn't be surprised if you enjoy driving a manual. That's my deal, it's a personal preference, that typically (with my driving style) yields better than automatic fuel mileage. Never been one to follow what the masses are doing, unless it actually meets my needs/wants/budget/maintenance profile.

I've got this funny attitude about buying a new vehicle. If I'm going to spend THAT much money, I want exactly what I'm after. I was chatting with a salesman in a dealership about the limited and boring colours available on cars - his response "That's what people want". Do I want to drop $30k+ so I can drive a beige car ? Guess I'm just one of those lemmings, who heads the wrong way !

The new automatics are impressive on paper, and can deliver good/great fuel mileage on some platforms. I somebody is a Lease for 90k km Then Dump It type, then the rest of the story doesn't matter. I tend to Buy and Hold vehicles for a long time. Honda and Hyundai, and VW have had some spotty reliability on their automatics, to name just a few.

Maintenance - for cost reasons alone, a person would be wise to understand the price of changing the fluid in VW's DSG automatic. That, and it has to be done fairly often. Great design, but a lot of the fuel saving (vs. older automatics) is going to get chewed up by the service costs.

IF I found a used vehicle in truly fantastic shape AND it was automatic AND I could get it for a steal, then I might jump on it. Buying brand new, it'll be stick for me, at least for small/mid-sized cars.

Given the long service life I can get out of a stick transmission in my household (fully understanding that is not common, today), I have no particular interest in getting into owning a more complex transmission that costs more to maintain, and in may cases is significantly less reliable than a manual.

I'm from Missouri, with a stutter and OCD loop built in, when it comes to proving new technologies, esp. when it can potentially hit me hard in the wallet. One of my concerns is gasoline quality, there are some issues in that area, and not just with the present and escalating level of ethanol. The lousy lubrication of ethanol is not something diesel owners have to deal with, unless they are not paying attention to what additives they are using.

At a minimum, if I owned a GDI vehicle, I'd be doing some reading over on BITOG to see how prevalent fuel dilution is. If it was common, I'd be getting testing done on my own oil. I'd also be checking to see if this particular GDI has a discrete and readily changeable fuel filter - if not, I'd be keeping in mind that performance and problems may change over time, as deposits build up somewhere other than in a fuel filter.

GDI is impressive in many respects, it's just not something I'm interested in spending my money on, yet.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Okay i misunderstood i thought it was a technology you were regarding as the price of entry for considering a new car. Another interesting fact about the 1.4l turbo is that gm went back to an iron block. While this is mainly to help with engine noise as gm has been plagued with horrible noise and vibration on their aluminum block 4 cylinders for years. They were also able to keep the mass increase down to a minimum by optimizing the block design for that bore diameter. Because they don't need to sleeve an iron block the iron block is considerably smaller than the aluminum would have been.

I should provably disclose I'm a performance engineer at GM who works on the cruze platform. I've spent a lot of time in the eco and love it. If my wife didn't work for ford i would own an eco manual. We ended up getting a focus to add some balance to our fleet of 5 GM vehicles. I own 4 cars/trucks that are 96 and older. 2 1996 gm trucks first year for multi port once you upgraded from the central port. I'm not necessarily a fan of new technology either. I like being able to work on my own stuff.

Heres how i spent my weekend I'm retiring her with close to 200k the rear body structure was shot due too MI winter roads and chloride on the dirt roads. im saving all the usefull parts for my wife's 1995 sc1 with 235k miles. This is a summer only car for here. The engine and trans are under the car.



View attachment 332878

Sorry i didn't understand where you were going in your original post.

Thanks for the apology Dave, but No Worries, Eh !

Good to have a factory guy hanging out here, esp. one that spends personal time spinning wrenches.

I noted that Return to Iron Block useage..... funny, if you follow designs for long enough, things often get recycled.

With the wife driving Ford, does she fix her own car ? :laughing: The older Focus had some wonky suspension issues, but for the most part weren't too bad.

I can understand that you aren't totally free to talk about behind-the-scenes design issues and trajectories, but we look forward to whatever insights that you can share.

Rgds, D.

 

[Scooby074]

Since Global Diesel compact trucks (that we cant get here) seem to be a topic that many of us like to discuss, maybe its own thread is in order?

I just made one and posted up a review of the Amarok by Aussie Top Gear *shudder* Compact Diesel trucks that we can't get here

 

[buickanddeere]

As much as I like to see stick tranis offered..... if I was a VP of Marketing at GM, I wouldn't be in a big hurry to try and take on VW directly - tough competetion in this sector.

That last design article I linked gives an indication of the marketing spin GM wants on the diesel Cruze - "It's a performance engine (agreed) that happens to get pretty decent fuel mileage".

As "spin" goes, I can live with that marketingeze (as it's true).

In this case, the "Take it for a test drive, and see what you think" strategy is a pretty good one..... torque is easy to sell !

Rgds, D.

What do you mean hesitant to take on VW with a diesel? I know it comes as a shock but there is a lot of world, people and market outside of the US.
GM has been in the light diesel truck and diesel car business for years competing against Toyota, VW, Mazda, Ford, Chrysler etc. ever been outside of the US to central and South America? Africa,Australia, Europe , Middle East and the Far East?

 

[buickanddeere]

Id love to know the percentage of VW owners in general who choose the stick. And what subset of diesel owners did as well. I bet its high.

Also love to see the breakdown of transmission choices for Canadians vs Americans

Canadians prefer the stick shifts as they resemble the dog sled whips we all use to motivate the dogs for six months of the year to get around in the snow.

 

[buickanddeere]

As for the cast iron vs. cast aluminum blocks. I've heard engineers say it takes a pound of aluminum to provide the strength of one pound of cast iron.

 

[newbury]

Maintenance - for cost reasons alone, a person would be wise to understand the price of changing the fluid in VW's DSG automatic. That, and it has to be done fairly often. Great design, but a lot of the fuel saving (vs. older automatics) is going to get chewed up by the service costs.

The price of changing the DSG is about $150 for fluids and filter. I just had my '09 done at the dealer for about $250. If "fairly often" is every 40K miles doing it yourself is not that difficult if you can measure the tranny temp w/ a $25 HF IR thermometer. And there is discussion that it can easily go to 50,000 miles.

When I first started to ask prices, in '09, the same dealership that charged me $250 was asking $400.

 

[3930dave]

What do you mean hesitant to take on VW with a diesel? I know it comes as a shock but there is a lot of world, people and market outside of the US.
GM has been in the light diesel truck and diesel car business for years competing against Toyota, VW, Mazda, Ford, Chrysler etc. ever been outside of the US to central and South America? Africa,Australia, Europe , Middle East and the Far East?

What I should have said was " ....if I was a VP of Marketing at GM, I wouldn't be in a big hurry to try and take on VW directly..... in the domestic USA market." The thought was in my mind, didn't make it to the keyboard..... unusual, as I'm often way too verbose !

I am "somewhat" aware of the performance/efficiency/cost effectiveness of the diesel platforms that Ford and GM deliver outside of of Canada and the USA. Read that statement to mean definitely more than the average consumer. My basic depth of knowledge in this area should be apparent from some of the ranting I've done in other threads, but in case not, I'll add:

With my present level of knowledge on this subject, I am already more than irritated enough that our gubmints won't allow Ford, GM, et al to market these highly efficient and cost effective diesel platforms that they deliver elsewhere in the world.

I consciously (honestly, I'm not trying to be funny) have forced myself to NOT heavily research what diesels are available elsewhere.

Pls believe me when I say, I'm already painfully aware of what diesel platforms are in volume production elsewhere in the world. Well, some of them are actually built in the USA, but for export only - so while they are made here, we just can't buy 'em.

I have no general issue with GM, we need those jobs here, and I want to see all of these manufacturers succeed with their new diesel offerings.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

The price of changing the DSG is about $150 for fluids and filter. I just had my '09 done at the dealer for about $250. If "fairly often" is every 40K miles doing it yourself is not that difficult if you can measure the tranny temp w/ a $25 HF IR thermometer. And there is discussion that it can easily go to 50,000 miles.

When I first started to ask prices, in '09, the same dealership that charged me $250 was asking $400.

Good to hear that the price has come down. I don't agree with the "lifetime fill" nonsense some companies have marketed for their automatics, but yes, 40k does seem low to me. I'd do it at that interval if I owned one, but I'm willing to bet many VW owners are going to drive a lot longer than that.

Not picking on VW owners, I view most owners of automatics the same way (TBN'ers and other gearheads aside), as many don't pay any attention to transmission maintenance.

Maintenance interval aside, the DSG is a technically impressive design.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Since Global Diesel compact trucks (that we cant get here) seem to be a topic that many of us like to discuss, maybe its own thread is in order?

I just made one and posted up a review of the Amarok by Aussie Top Gear *shudder* Compact Diesel trucks that we can't get here

:drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool:

PM me your mailing address Jason, I need to send you a dry cleaning bill !

That will be a fun thread, thanks for setting that up.

Sending extra Scooby snacks your way.......... :cheese:opcorntub::beer::burger:

Rgds, D.

 

[Scooby074]

*Scooby Doo voice on* Rooby Racks.... Ri Rove Rooby Racks *Scooby voice off*

:thumbsup:

Hopefully that thread will develop into something. Maybe, just maybe, it will catch the eyes of somebody "important" in the auto industry. Not that they'd be ones to listen

 

[3930dave]

*Scooby Doo voice on* Rooby Racks.... Ri Rove Rooby Racks *Scooby voice off*

:thumbsup:

Hopefully that thread will develop into something. Maybe, just maybe, it will catch the eyes of somebody "important" in the auto industry. Not that they'd be ones to listen

Well, the more noise we make.... can't hurt.

There are proabably Marketing and Engineering advocates within the car companies that would dearly love to roll those out here. Not to trivialize building a Marketing Case, but IMO, the biggest impediments domestically are in the government sector, and the oil companies.

Rgds, D.