John Deere 4120 V.S. Kubota Grand L4060 w/ prices

[eagle107]

Wait, you list these as "higher grade components", but you don't know what the corresponding LS (or Kioti) components are? How do you know that all of the things listed are actually better if you don't know what the competition is using?

You do realize that the vast majority of that list is vague, and generic, right? Stuff like "Heavy-duty crankshaft provides more bearing surface area"...more bearing surface compared to what? Glow plugs? My LS has those too. Planetary drive...yep, got those too. The list goes on, and on. Again, once you can't compare basic core capabilities, and show some sort of clear superiority, it becomes smoke and mirrors. But our cylinder pistons are nitride coated! :laughing:

Yeah, I thought you would be defensive now about that list. As for "planetary drive," you need to provide proof that the LS R and XR series tractors have them; I have yet to find anything in LS's literature saying they have Planetary drives. It does not mean that they do not have them, I just cannot find the proof on that claim. The other thing that bugs me are the front axle steering cylinders. Having those cylinders in the front without any guards is just a time-bomb waiting to happen. LS should put guard on the front of the cylinders like Kubota does.

Nonetheless, you have been disputing what John Deer and Kubota have to offer at a higher price point, so time for you to put some skin in the game here. Now here is your challenge, show me how LS components are just as high grade as my 4520's. Show me a list, like I did, on the components LS uses and then we can compare and contrast the differences.

Also, if LS's components are as high grade, then why doesn't LS back it up with better "hours" on the warranties. LS's general bumper-to-bumper warranty only has 750 hours and a engine/drive-train only has 1500 hours which just does not sound right. While Kubota's general warranty 1500 hours (twice as long) and John Deere's general warranty is 2000 hours and both Kubota's and John Deer's engine/drive train warranties has 2000 hours. LS's 2 year warranty should have at least 1500 hours and their 5 years warranty should be at least 3000 to 4000 hours to mean anything. May be LS is afraid that their components are not rated for those longer hours and they know they might fail if they put a longer "hours" on their warranties. It seems to me that LS might have engineered their components to a lesser grade so they can keep the pricing lower, but that would also mean why they would need to keep the warranty hours lower.

 

[GManBart]

Thats a nice little tractor, and a nice meadow. I think I would be puting something in there to eat it.

That one is going to be a 25yd deep pistol range soon :thumbsup:

 

[GManBart]

Yeah, I thought you would be defensive now about that list. As for "planetary drive," you need to provide proof that the LS R and XR series tractors have them; I have yet to find anything in LS's literature saying they have Planetary drives. It does not mean that they do not have them, I just cannot find the proof on that claim. The other thing that bugs me are the front axle steering cylinders. Having those cylinders in the front without any guards is just a time-bomb waiting to happen. LS should put guard on the front of the cylinders like Kubota does.

I'm not being defensive, just stating the obvious. I haven't seen anything on the XR series machines, but if you want to check on the R series, you can go to either the NH Boomer 50 of Case Farmall B spec pages, and they specifically state that they have planetary final drives.

Nonetheless, you have been disputing what John Deer and Kubota have to offer at a higher price point, so time for you to put some skin in the game here. Now here is your challenge, show me how LS components are just a high grade as my 4520's. Show me a list, like I did, on the components LS uses and then we can compare and contrast the differences.

That's a pretty silly failure of logic. You (collectively) started saying that D and K offer "higher quality" components, so several of us asked how you know that. We (collectively) never said that LS or Kioti offer equal or better quality components. In short, if you're the one claiming something is better, or higher quality, the burden is on you, not the other way around. Just because you have a list of components you think are better doesn't mean anything. YOU show us where you've compared them to the others out there, and determined they were better. Enjoy your homework.

Also, if LS's components are as high grade, then why doesn't LS back it up with better "hours" on the warranties. LS's general bumper-to-bumper warranty only has 750 hours and a engine/drive-train only has 1500 hours which just does not sound right. While Kubota's general warranty 1500 hours (twice as long) and John Deere's general warranty is 2000 hours and both Kubota's and John Deer's engine/drive train warranties has 2000 hours. LS's 2 year warranty should have at least 1500 hours and their 5 years warranty should be at least 3000 to 4000 hours to mean anything. May be LS is afraid that their components are not rated for those longer hours and they know they might fail if they put a longer "hours" on their warranties. It seems to me that LS might have engineered their components to a lesser grade so they can keep the pricing lower, but that would also mean why they would need to keep the warranty hours lower.

For the market that companies like LS and Kioti appear to be targeting (non large-scale commercial owners), the longer term often means more to the customer than the higher hours. Something like 5 years and 1500 hours is fine for the average CUT owner when most are used about 100hrs a year. I'm using mine a lot considering I have a very demanding job, and have had to travel 8 times in the last year (minimum of a week at a time), and I'm probably going to put 300 hours on it this year....right in line with the warranty.

For the additional price you pay, and if all that engineering and materials quality are soooo much better, why don't Deere and Kubota offer both more hours, and more years? They're stuff is light years better, right? If they really trusted what they're selling, adding additional years really should be a non-issue...but they don't.

 

[murphy1244]

Kioti is unlimited hours.

 

[k0ua]

Kioti is unlimited hours.

Murph it is all those higher quality components that allow them to offer an unlimited hours on the Kioti... ..... come on guys.. this has turned into a pee'ing contest..Are we gaining anything here? or educating anyone? I think not.

 

[GManBart]

Murph it is all those higher quality components that allow them to offer an unlimited hours on the Kioti... ..... come on guys.. this has turned into a pee'ing contest..Are we gaining anything here? or educating anyone? I think not.

I learned that the hydraulic pistons on my tractor aren't as corrosion resistant as those Deere offers. How I'll be able to carry on is still in question. :confused3:

 

[DocDiesel]

You inferred in your first post that they were equally quality because everything besides price was the same. From there on we've listed the higher quality components. You refuse to believe they are, and with a still minuscule list. You demand that we go out and do research on the superior components, give you a list and then it's got to have the inferior components as well. You just keep trying to inch your way away. Why don't you show us these comparable components on your LS? Using EVERYTHING that I, Arlen, and Eagle have stated prove to us where all these features are within your LS.

Also I looked on NH's website and saw nothing about planetary drives. Show us where LS (not NH) has them, and just because NH has them, they could manufacture them differently, so I want to see literature where LS has them. And don't try and tell me to do it, your turn Bart.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I have a question, I don't really care what the correct answer is, I'm not purchasing any tractors anytime soon, just would like to know is all. It was mentioned that the black rods in the cylinders are better. :thumbsup: And yet I have seen several new tractors on the dealers lot or at the World AG Expo in California with oxidized cylinder rams. I have to say that I have never seen an oxidized chromed cylinder ram. :confused3: I have asked several of the different manufacturers that use the black rods about them and why they are now using those. EVERY one of them told me for cost. I can only assume that they meant to lower costs, not to raise them. :confused3: I would think this does not mean that they are better or worse, just less money to buy.

 

[arlen4720]

I have a question, I don't really care what the correct answer is, I'm not purchasing any tractors anytime soon, just would like to know is all. It was mentioned that the black rods in the cylinders are better. :thumbsup: And yet I have seen several new tractors on the dealers lot or at the World AG Expo in California with oxidized cylinder rams. I have to say that I have never seen an oxidized chromed cylinder ram. :confused3: I have asked several of the different manufacturers that use the black rods about them and why they are now using those. EVERY one of them told me for cost. I can only assume that they meant to lower costs, not to raise them. :confused3: I would think this does not mean that they are better or worse, just less money to buy.

I *think* that the black rods are more corrosion resistant, and work out a little better for farm utility tractors, and won't flake off with repeated flexing of the rod. Supposed to have 3 times the life.
Here is a link from Louisiana state University. From the picture, it looks like and actual JD 4x20 with a400cx loader.
The process they are describing sounds more complicated than chrome.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I *think* that the black rods are more corrosion resistant, and work out a little better for farm utility tractors, and won't flake off with repeated flexing of the rod. Supposed to have 3 times the life.
Here is a link from Louisiana state University. From the picture, it looks like and actual JD 4x20 with a400cx loader.
The process they are describing sounds more complicated than chrome.

I sure hope that this is correct, since it appears that the black finish is what most companies are going with. Just not what I have seen in person though.