New to welding.....having a blast w/projects!!

[stormpetrel]

Had some projects to do and didn't wanna pay someone to do 'em....so I bought a little Lincoln Weld-Pak and got to work. First impression? This is *not* easy My first attempts at laying down a bead were laughable.:laughing:

Today's project was welding a couple of grab hooks onto the top of my loader bucket. I used Lincoln Innershield 211 .035 flux core wire on the highest setting and wire feed on 3 (fairly low). Two passes did the trick. This is the first weld I've done that I though looked at all decent, and I've burned up a couple of pounds of wire practicing!

I didn't put any reinforcing plate under the hooks because the loader has a new 1/4" top (the first project I attempted) backed with 1/2" steel plate which is through-bolted to strengthen the top. I have a grapple on the bucket which bent the spit out of the top. I had reinforced the 1/8" steel w/ a piece of 1/4" angle iron which failed miserably at strengthening the top sufficiently to stop it from bending. Ahem.

So I cut the entire top off, fitted a new 1/4" steel plate instead of the 1/8" that was on there originally. I lapped it over the top on the back, and butted it against the sides. I then ran a continuous bead in two passes, on BOTH top and bottom of all seams. It didn't look too pretty, but I've tested it with the largest rocks the loader/grapple can lift, and some it couldn't lift. The welds held fine, and the top of the bucket didn't re-bend.

I can't say say enough about the little Lincoln flux-core welder: it has done all I could throw at it and run perfectly. I didn't buy a bigger welder because (a) I don't have the money, (b) I don't have 220v in my garage, and (c) I wanted a new welder for my first one, and spent all I could afford trying to get a decent one (for a 110v, that is). I tried Mr. sledge on a weld I thought looked ugly (A piece of pipe welded on to a 1/4" "coupon") and my vise broke!!! So I guess ugly doesn't necessarily mean weak?

Anyhoo, I just wanted to show folks what I'm up to. And....thanks for all the good info I've collected about how to weld from "lurking" here and trying to get the right info.

The photos show the new hook, and a shot of the bucket top. Any comments, advice etc. are appreciated.

 

[RoMad]

The hook weld looks pretty darn good for a beginner. I am not a mig welder, so others may correct me. If I made that weld I would run one more stringer on the bucket up to about half the height of the weld you have and I would turn the heat up a little and make sure it penetrates.
Like I said at first, it looks good. Just doesn't look like it penetrated into the top of the bucket a lot.

 

[Shield Arc]

I'm new to welding myself! But if it was me I'd preheat those hooks, and make two more passes all the way around!

 

[Arc weld]

I guess someone has to be the bearer of bad news but a first or second project for a new welder shouldn't be welding lifting hooks on a bucket, especially with NR211! NR211 is a general purpose wire that isn't designed for dynamic loading(twisting/pulling stress). Before welding anything, that's the first thing you have to consider, whether it's a static load(just sitting there) or a dynamic load. Then you choose the right rods or wire to use and how to prep it. The very least I'd do is put 2 more passes on the hooks like Shield Arc said. Preheat would be a very good idea since your machine is limited to welding about 3/16" material.

 

[PhysAssist]

I'm new to welding myself! But if it was me I'd preheat those hooks, and make two more passes all the way around!

LOL! New to welding

 

[BukitCase]

Shield is retired, kinda like me - I've noticed that it sometimes makes more sense to think of time as being more relative to the entire cosmos, not the immediate version that tends to rear its ugly head when punching a clock

Sooo, when he says "new to welding", it may be he's measuring more in terms of "millenia" than in minutes

At least I've almost got the wifey to swallow that crap :cool2: ... Steve

 

[PhysAssist]

Shield is retired, kinda like me - I've noticed that it sometimes makes more sense to think of time as being more relative to the entire cosmos, not the immediate version that tends to rear its ugly head when punching a clock

Sooo, when he says "new to welding", it may be he's measuring more in terms of "millenia" than in minutes

At least I've almost got the wifey to swallow that crap :cool2: ... Steve

Sounds like a Carl Sagan view of the cosmos- mill-yuns and mill-yuns of years came before, and after....

 

[Shield Arc]

stormpetrel in case you didn't understand what I meant about adding two more passes. Here is a really crude drawing of a 3-pass fillet.
I put some hooks on my fence spooler awhile back. I used 7018, and remember these hooks are for only holding the spooler onto the forks, so no real load, or I may have put 3-passes also.

 

[cqaigy2]

I think that was 'bill yuns and bill yuns'
That 'new guy' Shield Arc, seems to know what he's talking about. :thumbsup:

 

[Shield Arc]

That 'new guy' Shield Arc, seems to know what he's talking about. :thumbsup:

Naw, just got a good line of bull ****!

 

[stormpetrel]

stormpetrel in case you didn't understand what I meant about adding two more passes. Here is a really crude drawing of a 3-pass fillet.
I put some hooks on my fence spooler awhile back. I used 7018, and remember these hooks are for only holding the spooler onto the forks, so no real load, or I may have put 3-passes also.

Thanks for the good info!!

I wonder how much weight the hooks will bear? The loader lifts around 800 lbs. Deduct the grapple (100+ total) and the tooth bar (around 100) and each hook is supporting 300 pounds. I might just give them some love taps w/ "Mr. sledge" , or test them thoroughly with lifting weights that are increasingly heavy.

Darn! I was so proud of my pretty-looking welds!

Oh....BTW, you were wanting me to lay another bead down on the loader top, yes? In other words switching #s 2 and three on your diagram....?

 

[Shield Arc]

I might just give them some love taps w/ "Mr. sledge"

Don't do that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you have a weed burner, or torch of some kind pre heat the base metal and hook, then run two more passes like I suggested earlier. Just make me feel a lot better is all.

Not a very good picture but here is what a 3-pass fillet is suppose to look like. This is NR-212.

 

[Shield Arc]

Oh....BTW, you were wanting me to lay another bead down on the loader top, yes? In other words switching #s 2 and three on your diagram....?

Your weld would be #1, add #2, and #3.

 

[stormpetrel]

I went back and did a couple more beads.......I was very resistant to the idea, but am happy that the hooks are strongly welded. Just today my equipment trailer got a flat tire while loaded w/dirt I put on it excavating. I used the tractor and a 3 ton jack to lift the trailer up; It was way beyond the capacity of the loader. No problems.

I have been practicing steadily on any steel I can get my hands on. The welds aren't getting any better looking. But I am learning to make strong welds with my little machine. I welded a hook onto my grapple for lifting lighter stuff. The paint two inches from hook (beyond what I had ground off to get clean metal for the weld) burst into flames and the steel glowed cherry red after the third pass. It was 1/4" material. Not bad.

Thanks for the help!!

 

[Arc weld]

For your first projects you should be welding things that wouldn't cause serious injury if they broke. Lifting hooks fall into this category. 3 passes was suggested because of your inexperience and also because your first pass looked a little cold and might not have had enough penetration into both pieces. I realize you want to put your new welder to work but you need to get some more experience before you weld things that could potentially be dangerous. I think Shield Arc would agree since he has stated several times that's it's scary when anyone can buy a welder and go to building a trailer with no welding experience. With practice your skills will improve but you need to give it some time.

 

[stormpetrel]

For your first projects you should be welding things that wouldn't cause serious injury if they broke. Lifting hooks fall into this category. 3 passes was suggested because of your inexperience and also because your first pass looked a little cold and might not have had enough penetration into both pieces. I realize you want to put your new welder to work but you need to get some more experience before you weld things that could potentially be dangerous. I think Shield Arc would agree since he has stated several times that's it's scary when anyone can buy a welder and go to building a trailer with no welding experience. With practice your skills will improve but you need to give it some time.

Thanks for the advice. It's already done and working though.....am I supposed to cut them off? I'm doing the best I can, practicing like mad, reading and learning like mad, listening to (most) advice. I understand you are trying to help. I don't see how telling me what is obvious (that hooks failing under load is potentially dangerous) can possibly improve the situation.

 

[Shield Arc]

stormpetrel I think what Arc weld is trying to tell you, is baby steps first! These little Mig machines in the wrong hands can be quite dangerous! They are so easy to get very nice looking welds, but have no strength to the weld at all. Do some destructive testing of your welds. Here are a couple threads I started. If nothing else destructive testing is a great confidence builder in your welding ability.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/welding/212146-mig-break-test.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/welding/211592-6013-test-results.html

 

[stormpetrel]

stormpetrel I think what Arc weld is trying to tell you, is baby steps first! These little Mig machines in the wrong hands can be quite dangerous! They are so easy to get very nice looking welds, but have no strength to the weld at all. Do some destructive testing of your welds. Here are a couple threads I started. If nothing else destructive testing is a great confidence builder in your welding ability.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/welding/212146-mig-break-test.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/welding/211592-6013-test-results.html

Thanks, I'll check those out. I thought flux cored wire burned hotter and penetrated better? True?

I have been using a real short stick-out and multiple passes to achieve some hot welds. The funnest part though? Testing 'em!!

Oh, and the one (early and very ugly) weld that I did test broke my vise!!! A good American-made vise.

 

[Shield Arc]

I thought flux cored wire burned hotter and penetrated better? True?

I have been using a real short stick-out and multiple passes to achieve some hot welds.

Yes that is true, but you still need some real horse power behind the wire.

With most T-11 wires I'll run 3/8 to 1/2-inch stick out. A lot of T-8 wires you have to run 3/4 to 1 1/4-inch stick out.

 

[Arc weld]

Yes, Shield Arc, baby steps first.

1/8" E70-T4 requires 2 3/4 to 3 3/4" stick out! You thread an insulated nozzle on the end of the gun and then use about 1/2" stickout from there. Otherwise it would be impossible to weld with 3 3/4" of wire sticking out. I've used some 3/32" with 2 3/4" stick out. The longer stick out preheats the wire so you get very fast deposition. I burned a 50# spool in less than 2 1/2 hours and I wasn't as hot as I could go. Interestingly enough a few weeks ago I was reading an article in a fabrication magazine that was talking about getting more deposition from sub-arc welding by using a longer stick out.

Flux-core wire comes in two types and many, many variations of those 2 types. Then there's Metal-core wire which is another type of tubular wire. The two types of flux-core are self shielded, Innershield(Lincoln) and gas shielded, Outershield(Lincoln), also commonly called Dual-shield. Just like stick electrodes there are different wires designed for different applications. They use different parameters and polarities just like stick rods for different applications. NR 211 runs on straight polarity which has the lowest penetration but beyond that it is a general purpose wire not designed for high strength welds under stress. If you look at the spec. sheet for it, it took something like 23 passes on 3/4" plate to meet the AWS requirements. More passes gives finer grain structure but 23 passes on 3/4" plate is a LOT of passes. Most Dual-shield wires are designed for high strength welds under stress and Dual shield wires typically have the the deepest penetration and most are run on reverse polarity. An easy way to tell if if a wire or rod is designed for welds under stress (Dyamic loads) is to see if it lists charpy V notch impact test results on the spec. sheet. Wires and rods designed for static loads don't require charpy impact values. There are so many variables in Flux-core wire it would take many pages to try and decipher all of it but the bottom line is, you want to use the right wire and right technique if you need the most strength.