EPA going after Wood Burning Stoves and manufactures NEW RULE Jan 3rd 2014

[dave1949]

Here are the fuels in order of their carbon content: Wood > Coal > Oil > Natural Gas. The good news is the US is the world's leader in NG production. I was raised burning wood, and have cut firewood to sale for over half of my life. But of the fuels available, it is the most polluting. Out here in the country where there are few people, it isn't a big deal. But when the population density is higher, so is the amount of smoke.

Larro

When everything is factored in, I really doubt that for people who cut wood on their land and use it for heat.

Think about the extraction, processing and distribution too.

 

[ultrarunner]

When everything is factored in, I really doubt that for people who cut wood on their land and use it for heat.

Think about the extraction, processing and distribution too.

I'm on the same page... Grandparents don't even own a car... they do have a small 24 milk cow dairy farm with plenty of wood just from snow and storm damage.

Until a few years ago... he did all the cutting by hand... still splits by hand and uses his 55 year old tractor to bring it home.

I don't know anyone more in touch with the land... they don't even own a trash can... they don't have trash... they buy flour and sugar... nothing from cans... everything is put up in mason jars.

Just won't buy into the notion keeping warm and cooking with wood is a problem.

 

[Larro Darro]

When everything is factored in, I really doubt that for people who cut wood on their land and use it for heat.

Think about the extraction, processing and distribution too.

This may be true, which is why I said it was no big deal for folks in the country. But for those in the 'burbs who work all day in an office, and buy their wood, I'm not sure they are even saving money. After we switched to central heat and air, I still sold firewood for several more years. I made good money doing it, but if I was having to pay what I charged to heat my home, I would be checking on a heat pump. This said, I do live in NW Florida. I'm sure my heating bill is a small fraction of what a Maine bill would be.

As happy as I am about the economic and environmental pluses of the Natural Gas boom, I do worry about the side effects of production. I'm glad we don't have enough here to make it worth fracking for. But as more electrical generation changes over to NG from coal, we will all breath easier.

Larro

 

[the old grind]

LNG is a huge export from the states lately compared to any time in the past. Wood gasification was used in Germany during WWII to power cars & trucks, no less, as petroleum was diverted to the national self-destruct effort.

'Catalytics' aren't totally obsolete, they just have their own operating parameters. "Start fire and bring catalyst to ~550^ F. Close draft/door to snuff flames and let wood smolder. Catalyst will burn smoke and climb to >1000^ F." Burn times are long and exhaust is cleaner than stoking an old Franklin stove.

IMO, burning un-seasoned wood is an elephant in the room regarding efficiency, maintenance, and pollution. We're all going to pay dearly for this new panacea, some just by having pesky neighbors unwilling to shell out for more practical replacements, if they do exist. The mantra of far too many folks I know is that 'wood is free' and 'I need to save $$'. Somehow that doesn't often extend to getting off the couch, cutting, splitting, whatever it takes to have wood well seasoned and ready to burn. Meanwhile governments don't need any real enemies to 'make this world a better place' (their usual motive for meddling) only someone to pick on while we watch and they fail to fix their own problems.

This whole thing could be about jobs, pollution, government intervention, or just about change for the sake of change, what now drives our economy and thereby affects our lifestyle. Some will see the end of individual freedom, others will wonder what all the fuss is about. Trouble is that rules and 'standards' never will be able to overcome the misuse of a product, and the result of this impending action is that we will be taken further away from self reliance and all the more be forced to depend on 'technology' (profit-driven intangible buzz word).

In this day and age, meddling in our lives begins with engendering dissatisfaction with what we have to encourage us to spend our way to a brighter future, buying the 'new and improved' version of just about everything we use. If you think this is all about the $$ you'll have a hard time finding a reasonable argument to the contrary. What's not so obvious to many is that among the greatest benefits of heating with wood is having a reason to to log off of spacebook, put down the remote, and get some exercise. I commend all of you who do so, and only hope you won't have to make payments to continue.

 

[KennyG]

Here are the fuels in order of their carbon content: Wood > Coal > Oil > Natural Gas. The good news is the US is the world's leader in NG production. I was raised burning wood, and have cut firewood to sale for over half of my life. But of the fuels available, it is the most polluting. Out here in the country where there are few people, it isn't a big deal. But when the population density is higher, so is the amount of smoke.

Larro

If you're looking at CO2 as a pollutant, wood isn't in the same category as fossil fuels. Barring something very unexpected (turning into coal or oil) the wood we burn would return to CO2 within a few hundred years anyway. The Carbon in coal, oil and gas has been locked up for millions of years. The pollution issue with wood is particulates and how much or little of a problem that is seems to depend not only on how you burn it but where. To the extent the particles return to the ground and aren't breathed, they probably are not a concern, which is why urban areas are more concerned.

 

[TnAndy]

IMO, burning un-seasoned wood is an elephant in the room regarding efficiency, maintenance, and pollution. We're all going to pay dearly for this new panacea, some just by having pesky neighbors unwilling to shell out for more practical replacements, if they do exist. The mantra of far too many folks I know is that 'wood is free' and 'I need to save $$'. Somehow that doesn't often extend to getting off the couch, cutting, splitting, whatever it takes to have wood well seasoned and ready to burn. .

Amen to that.

I cut GOOD hardwood 2 seasons ahead. My neighbor was cutting and splitting and sticking straight in the stove wood he cut yesterday. Actually HE was too lazy to even do that.....he sends his 15 year old out to do it.

 

[ultrarunner]

It could all be academic if California rules go nationwide.

Simply put, blanket wood burn bans for heating on the coldest of winter nights.

 

[sd455dan]

Amen to that.

I cut GOOD hardwood 2 seasons ahead. My neighbor was cutting and splitting and sticking straight in the stove wood he cut yesterday. Actually HE was too lazy to even do that.....he sends his 15 year old out to do it.

EXACTLY
always best to have good dry seasoned wood in the queue

I am with a lot of you -getting wood in , bucking it up, splitting -ageing and stacking has its own rewards- actually enjoy it.

 

[westcliffe01]

The real impact of this legislation is going to be that it will simply be IMPOSSIBLE to sell a used wood stove that does not bear the mandated certification plaque. Thats because any county that has a building code and requires inspections and permits (most of them) will not permit the installation of a non compliant stove.

There also appears to be "audit" wording in the legislation. Not sure how that is going to work. A knock on your door to inspect your stove/fuel/install ? Or some sort of swat team that "responds" to smoke complaints ? You will notice that they call for a tight specification on exactly what pellets are allowed in a pellet stove for instance. Multi fuel stoves would have to be certified for all fuels that they are rated for, a significant expense. The certification agencies will of course be smiling all the way to the bank... Their business is going to go up by probably 400% or more, until the companies fail.

I had to have a permit and inspection for my stove and the inspector wanted to see the manufacturers paperwork regarding clearances and looked for the plate on the stove with the UL tag on it. He must have liked the job I did because he didn't dig into it too much.

 

[the old grind]

Throw homeowner's insurance companies into this matrix and fecal matter will indeed contact the rotary air displacement device.