Stopping a snowmobile without injury

[MossRoad]

You guys just don't get it do you. Strangers are not allowed to trespass on private land and the land owner shouldn't have to stop what he is doing to tell them they are trespassing. Show some respect, ask first.

Exactly. I see a serious disrespect for private property in some of these posts. Kinda disturbing.

 

[GGB]

Exactly. I see a serious disrespect for private property in some of these posts. Kinda disturbing.

Very disturbing-and very sad........

 

[dave1949]

Exactly. I see a serious disrespect for private property in some of these posts. Kinda disturbing.

Very disturbing-and very sad........

I agree.

As a landowner with a trail that is useful to neighbors, I would be impressed if a 15-year-old contacted me, introduced themselves, and asked if he/she could cross my lot. I would always say yes, with some easy conditions. I closed that trail to ATV riders last summer because out of state people would show up with 6-8 machines and ride across in the night, like after midnight. They have no common sense about rural life, and they aren't neighbors in any real sense of the word.

Rationalizing breaking laws or being rude, by saying one could be doing worse things (mugging old ladies?), is very disturbing.

Telling a landowner they are lazy, or the "fun police" is also disturbing. The lazy one is the person who doesn't make the effort to meet landowners and ask for permission or offer to help. Landowners do not owe everyone else a solution to their problems. Trying to lay one's lack of fun on a property owner is very disturbing.

The world doesn't owe anyone "fun" just because they are sitting on a sled or ATV. Considerate riders join, and are active in, clubs that establish and maintain trail systems by working with landowners. It's not a mystery.

 

[MNBobcat]

I agree.

As a landowner with a trail that is useful to neighbors, I would be impressed if a 15-year-old contacted me, introduced themselves, and asked if he/she could cross my lot. I would always say yes, with some easy conditions. I closed that trail to ATV riders last summer because out of state people would show up with 6-8 machines and ride across in the night, like after midnight. They have no common sense about rural life, and they aren't neighbors in any real sense of the word.

Rationalizing breaking laws or being rude, by saying one could be doing worse things (mugging old ladies?), is very disturbing.

Telling a landowner they are lazy, or the "fun police" is also disturbing. The lazy one is the person who doesn't make the effort to meet landowners and ask for permission or offer to help. Landowners do not owe everyone else a solution to their problems. Trying to lay one's lack of fun on a property owner is very disturbing.

The world doesn't owe anyone "fun" just because they are sitting on a sled or ATV. Considerate riders join, and are active in, clubs that establish and maintain trail systems by working with landowners. It's not a mystery.

What is mysterious about the fact that non-posted land in Minnesota is the way that a property owner lets the public know their land is available for hunting and recreation? Its the same as putting out a welcome sign.

 

[dave1949]

What is mysterious about the fact that non-posted land in Minnesota is the way that a property owner lets the public know their land is available for hunting and recreation? Its the same as putting out a welcome sign.

It's much the same here for hunting and on-foot recreation, but everyone will tell you it is polite, and people are strongly urged in every publication on the subject, to ask anyways. I realize different areas have different traditions, but the best way to keep that open access is to not take landowners for granted no matter where you are.

ATV's became such an abusive problem here that they now have to have written permission in hand from the landowner. And a Warden can stop them, to ask to see it, with no probable cause needed.

 

[MNBobcat]

It's much the same here for hunting and on-foot recreation, but everyone will tell you it is polite, and people are strongly urged in every publication on the subject, to ask anyways. I realize different areas have different traditions, but the best way to keep that open access is to not take landowners for granted no matter where you are.

ATV's became such an abusive problem here that they now have to have written permission in hand from the landowner. And a Warden can stop them, to ask to see it, with no probable cause needed.

I totally agree that the polite and respectful thing to do is to ask for permission first. But if its 10:00 pm at night and someone has been running the river for 40 miles and they see a good spot to exit onto what looks like a large wooded area with some trails...its not really realistic for them to find a house (in which case they would have already ridden on the private land) and knock on a door. They're going to look to see if the land is posted. If not, then its assumed they can ride the trails.

I'm just saying that some common sense needs to come into play here as well.

This land owner said he spent 6 hours on his property trying to catch snowmobilers. He has invested additional time meeting with the Sheriff (and frankly the Sheriff can better serve the public by catching criminals not trying to chase down people on snowmobiles.) He was also considering trying to sabotage and destroy snowmobiles.

In your mind, doesn't it make far more sense to spend a couple hours posting the property? I realize there is no guarantee that posting will stop the problem, but that's the place to start before going to other extremes, right? I think its wrong of him to make the assumption that these snowmobilers are flagrantly out to trespass on his land. Posting the property lets the snowmobiler know they shouldn't be there.

 

[luvmexfood]

MN Bobcat. I agree with your post saying common sense should come into play. Someone has been "running the river for 40 miles and at 10 that night they decide to exit the river" Have they done any pre-trip planning. When they exit the river where are they going to go? Do they live close or how are they going to get home? Where are they going?

Common sense would mean they preplanned there trip and did not travel 40 miles and just guess where to get off the river.

If an emergency ok. Get off where you can. Otherwise respect a man's property. Would the same person except someone riding through his yard at 10 in the night on a motorcycle not knowing who it was?

 

[aczlan]

MN Bobcat. I agree with your post saying common sense should come into play. Someone has been "running the river for 40 miles and at 10 that night they decide to exit the river" Have they done any pre-trip planning. When they exit the river where are they going to go? Do they live close or how are they going to get home? Where are they going?
Common sense would mean they preplanned there trip and did not travel 40 miles and just guess where to get off the river.

Around here, there are a couple of snowmobile clubs and they mark their trails every so often and at intersections. They go out BEFORE the season and ask permission to cross people's property. They also run a groomer to pack the trails and (from what I hear) have some people who will go out and respond to landowner complaints, including catching those who abuse the trails.

If an emergency ok. Get off where you can. Otherwise respect a man's property. Would the same person except someone riding through his yard at 10 in the night on a motorcycle not knowing who it was?

Ayep. Some people have a strange aversion to strangers running at 70MPH across their property at midnight with a 2 stroke engine wound out to 8-10k rpms...

Aaron Z

 

[hawkeye08]

You don't get it. In 90% of the State non-posted land is open to hunting and snowmobiling. How the **** is someone riding down a river going to know what County they are in? There are no signs. If they come up off the river onto land that is not posted, why would they think they can't ride on it? Its legal in the majority of the State.

I have absolutely no respect for a land owner who can't take some accountability and get off his lazy butt and post his property. He expects the Sheriff and everyone else to cater to his whims.

Perhaps the snowmobile riders should have an idea where they are and what the rules are... I think it is the snowmobile riders that are lazy and disrespectful, not the law abiding land owner.

Excerpt from State of Mn Snowmobile laws pg 23

Inside the seven-county metro area,
you may NOT ride:
on land that you do not own, unless
given written or verbal permission to
ride on that land by the owner,
occupant, or lessee, or unless
signs are posted stating
snowmobiling is allowed.

Excerpt from Anoka county parks dept pg 17
Section 9 - Snowmobiling
It shall be unlawful for any person to:
a. Operate a snowmobile in a park except on designated trails and then only on the right-hand side of the trail; or
b. Operate a snowmobile in a park contrary to rules and regulations established by the Director; or
c. Operate a snowmobile in a park in excess of posted speed limits, at a rate of speed greater than reasonable or proper under current condition, or in a careless, reckless, or negligent manner so as to endanger the person or property of another or to cause injury or damage thereto; or
d. Operate a snowmobile in violation of Minnesota Statutes, Section 84.81-84.90 鉄nowmobile Laws and Minnesota Rule 6100 鉄nowmobile Rules and Regulations (all rules and regulations therein pertaining to 叢ublic land and water shall apply on park property); or
e. Tow another person or thing, except in emergencies and only through the use of a rigid tow bar attached to the rear of the snowmobile; or
f. Operate a snowmobile in violation of any posted trail sign.

 

[dave1949]

MNBobcat,

I think the OP's desire to stop a snowmobile by somehow breaking something is not the right approach, but I will guess that it is a result of anger and frustration with the situation.

Personally, I would post my land if I were against all access, but in an earlier post you said posting alone is not enough to commit trespass in MN, that he must verbally tell the person to leave the land. If MN uses the paint stripe method of posting, that is not too difficult, cannot be stolen, and is more durable than signs. Buying signs that will last in the weather can get expensive for large areas.

The thought that riding along and seeing a sled track and no signs, is a green light to follow the track is problematic. It could be the person who lives there uses that track to access the river, for example. If I had a sled and used it to look over my lot in winter, does that mean I want other sleds to go off the marked trail because they see my tracks? They would say, "Well, I saw a track," as if that was meaningful.

When I allowed access, I always made it clear riders were welcome to cross my land on their way to somewhere else, and that they were to stay on the marked trail. I have no interest in hosting an outdoor recreation area, and don't want people wandering the other trails. From experience, I know that a trail is irresistible to some ATV riders--they just have to follow it. That is one of the reasons they are no longer welcome.

Does MN have a marked sledding trail system similar to this? ITS Trail Map