Propane Cost???

[rekees4300]

Our supplier offers a plan they lock in for a year during the summer when the propane is cheaper. This year it's $2 a gallon and I feel fortunate to pay that. So far they have said nothing about limits.

 

[PastTense]

Has anybody here figured their cost of electricity per Kw , then calculated the break even point for LP prices ? Paying $4.00-$5.00+ for LP isn't making sense.

Well the problem is that you have to have the correct equipment to use electric, which is many cases is going to take substantial time and money to install.

But suppose you have a 93% efficient LP furnace and are thinking of using 100% efficient electric space heaters. If your electricity is $.13/kwh like mine is then
Electric_Price/3412 = LP_Price/ (92,500 * .93) [We have price per BTU = price per BTU]
LP_Price = Electric_Price * ((92,500 * .93))/3412
So for me $3.28 gallon is the break even point. If you are paying $.10/kwh then the break even is $2.52

 

[buickanddeere]

Three or four 1500W heaters will keep the chill off most homes.

 

[RalphVa]

AND, propane is only 4.24 #/Gallon (very familiar with this number, as I worked with the stuff in our lube oil plants for 31 years). It's the #age that gives you BTU. A gallon of diesel is around 7.5 #/gallon, many more BTU in it per gallon vs. propane. This is one of the reasons (apart from safety) for my going with a diesel generator instead of propane.

Ralph

 

[SandburRanch]

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[SandburRanch]

If we look at some export numbers we can readily see the U.S. weather isn't the total problem but we don't hear that on the news report for fear of stepping on toes.

The export in October from 2012 - 2013 increased from 189 thousand barrels / day to 408 thousand barrels / day. At the end of the report period we see a lag of at least a couple of months + so we can only estimate what those numbers are at present.

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MPREXUS2&f=M

 

[grsthegreat]

here in idaho its about $3.00 per gallon, and they filled my tank last week. The sad part is there shipping propane to china while they gouge us here in the USA

 

[deerseeker001]

that shouldn't be allowed

 

[Redbug]

I think the propane industry needs better oversight like electric companies have. The public service commission helps keep electric rates in line with company profits. I think it should be applied to the propane industry, too.

 

[dave1949]

I think the propane industry needs better oversight like electric companies have. The public service commission helps keep electric rates in line with company profits. I think it should be applied to the propane industry, too.

We don't really have a national energy strategy that makes any sense.

The idea that, through fracking, we have a 100 year supply of gas is a big lie I think. If US levels of NG use remained where they were 2-3 years ago and none was exported, then there might be a 100 year supply.

Now they are rapidly expanding NG distribution to displace other dirtier and more expensive fuels, and exporting it to countries that need it in order to reduce coal pollution.

That 100 year supply is going to be used up at a rapid pace.

 

[newbury]

highway robbery

No highway robbery is when you come home and find your tanks stolen with about 400 gallons.
I had two stolen a couple of months ago.

 

[deerseeker001]

that is something i never heard of that

 

[dragoneggs]

Here it is definitely a function of whether you own or rent your tank. I finally purchased a tank last year and changed supplier and saw my refill price go from $3.60+ to just under $2.00 a gallon (filled last in the summer). Now I can shop around... with a leased tank I was held hostage. I will pay for my tank and be dollars ahead much quicker than I thought (less than 3 years!) I do need to get a refill now. It will be interesting to see if the supposed shortage has affected my area (NW Washington).

 

[deerseeker001]

I heard on the news tonight that it was up to 7.00 in some place in Wisconsin.

 

[Redbug]

We don't really have a national energy strategy that makes any sense.

The idea that, through fracking, we have a 100 year supply of gas is a big lie I think. If US levels of NG use remained where they were 2-3 years ago and none was exported, then there might be a 100 year supply.

Now they are rapidly expanding NG distribution to displace other dirtier and more expensive fuels, and exporting it to countries that need it in order to reduce coal pollution.

That 100 year supply is going to be used up at a rapid pace.

Good points and observations. That's the way I feel, too.

 

[dmccarty]

It's a lot more complicated than you would imagine. My father in law owned a farm/home fuel distributorship for over forty years and watched most of his competition go out of business due to depending on suppliers, allotments and so on. In the 70's he bought his own transports and hired drivers in addition to driving one himself all over the country to keep his customers in fuel. It cost him a boatload of money and an audit resulted in fines as in some cases he lost money.

He retired quite a few years ago and regulations are lots worse than ever, no one can put in the hours he and his drivers did without problems from DOT, rigs are outrageous and some of the large distribution points have closed. Two river terminals closed with only one locally and the next 125 miles away.

I'm not saying someone isn't making some money, but it's probably not your local supplier.

We used to have a local fuel company in town. They sold fuel and were also a small hardware store. Fire regulations changed which forced them to close the fuel side of the business because they could not afford to bring the equipment up to code. This was a family run business for at least two generations and the parents lived within walking distance of the building. REALLY nice people. I was in the hardware store one day and I had left my wallet at home but they let me have the parts I needed. They told me to pay them when I was next in town! I did not ask for them to do this, they just said don't worry about it pay us later. :shocked: :thumbsup: They did not know me from Adam but they let me walk out of the store with the parts. Course, they had me hooked so I always would go to their store first for parts. :laughing::laughing::laughing: They also kept their dogs in the store which my wife and kids loved. Those dogs have since died but they have new dogs and you can see them driving around town with the dogs in the bed.

I don't think they were making much money only selling hardware and then Lowes opened up. They saw the writing on the wall and the wifey found a partner to open a florist which has been very successful. They went from fuel and hardware to flowers. :laughing::laughing::laughing:

Later,
Dan

 

[ovrszd]

We used to have a local fuel company in town. They sold fuel and were also a small hardware store. Fire regulations changed which forced them to close the fuel side of the business because they could not afford to bring the equipment up to code. This was a family run business for at least two generations and the parents lived within walking distance of the building. REALLY nice people. I was in the hardware store one day and I had left my wallet at home but they let me have the parts I needed. They told me to pay them when I was next in town! I did not ask for them to do this, they just said don't worry about it pay us later. :shocked: :thumbsup: They did not know me from Adam but they let me walk out of the store with the parts. Course, they had me hooked so I always would go to their store first for parts. :laughing::laughing::laughing: They also kept their dogs in the store which my wife and kids loved. Those dogs have since died but they have new dogs and you can see them driving around town with the dogs in the bed.

I don't think they were making much money only selling hardware and then Lowes opened up. They saw the writing on the wall and the wifey found a partner to open a florist which has been very successful. They went from fuel and hardware to flowers. :laughing::laughing::laughing:

Later,
Dan

Great story Dan. I grew up in that type of environment. And by the Graces of God, still live in that environment. Last Summer I pumped my truck full of Diesel at the local station, went in to pay (yes, don't hafta pay upfront here), and realized I'd left my wallet at home. They said the same thing, pay next time you are in. Was 3 miles back to my house. I felt so embarrassed I drove straight home, got my wallet, drove back to the station and paid them. God Bless the diminishing parts of America where that portion of humanity is still alive and well.

 

[TripleR]

Richard and Dan, times sure have changed, some of it a difference in people and some by mandates or pure economics. I sure miss it and our little town is dying.

 

[dave1949]

Richard and Dan, times sure have changed, some of it a difference in people and some by mandates or pure economics. I sure miss it and our little town is dying.

One huge difference around here is that almost all gas stations and the like are owned by chains, not by local families. Chains have rules, and the employees, including the managers, either follow them or look for another job. Very little room for individual decision making is allowed, in fact they try to make it so none is even considered.

There is just no incentive for someone making $8/hour that will probably not be working at that location for very long anyways, to trust anyone to come back and pay for something. I don't hold that against them.

 

[TripleR]

One huge difference around here is that almost all gas stations and the like are owned by chains, not by local families. Chains have rules, and the employees, including the managers, either follow them or look for another job. Very little room for individual decision making is allowed, in fact they try to make it so none is even considered.

There is just no incentive for someone making $8/hour that will probably not be working at that location for very long anyways, to trust anyone to come back and pay for something. I don't hold that against them.

Yep, same here. A new chain quick mart is going up out on the highway next to the new General Dollar Store while family owned places have mostly closed.

My brother in law owns a small DQ type restaurant here only because he wants something to do, but when he retires no one will take it over and the building will be worthless as it can't support a chain operation.