Need propane heater ideas for insulated 42x60 Morton bldg

   / Need propane heater ideas for insulated 42x60 Morton bldg #21  
I had a contractor give me a bid to install spray foam insulation in my 30x40 shop, including ceiling. Bid was $17,000. I only paid $12k for the shop.

Didnt happen to say the least.
 
   / Need propane heater ideas for insulated 42x60 Morton bldg #22  
If you don't mind, please provide information per your statement making tube heaters more costly to operate.

This is no different than a homeowner thinking that a 20 SEER2 split heat pump would save them more money vs a lower SEER2 system when connecting that new HVAC system to 30 year old existing duct work vs a 14.3 SEER2 system with brand new duct work and duct tested.
The radiant tube heater guys won't publish efficiency ratings but as non-condensing heaters they are generally somewhere between 50-80% AFUE (estimated closer to 50-60% on the high end for tube heaters) for non-condensing furnaces. High efficiency condensing furnaces can get up to 98% AFUE.

Some info on condensing vs non-condensing

Some info on radiant tube heater "efficiency"

The sales guys will always fill your ears with BS and lies until they get the sale then will ghost you when their taglines fail to meet up with the hype. You will hear "100% efficient radiant heat" but a butt-load of waste heat ends up going outside through the exhaust and does nothing to heat your building vs the cost of propane consumed.

I can tell you that my radiant heater system running propane costs an arm and a leg to operate and I keep the temps low because of the high operating costs at $2-$4/gallon of propane. If you don't want to believe reality come on over and we'll stick a thermometer in the exhaust pipe and you can see for yourself how "efficient" the combustion process is. Bring some beers while you are at it!
 
   / Need propane heater ideas for insulated 42x60 Morton bldg
  • Thread Starter
#23  
I had a hanging Modine natural gas heater in my garage in AK. It had a wall mounted controller. Worked very well. Natural gas was dirt cheap when we lived in Anchorage. Electricity cost was over the moon.

Here in WA I have a propane powered salamander heater for my shop. I bring the shop up to 70F and then shut it off if I'm going to be doing anything that might create dust ( sanding ).
How big is your shop?
I have VAL6 diesel heater but afraid to leave running when I'm not there.
 
   / Need propane heater ideas for insulated 42x60 Morton bldg
  • Thread Starter
#24  
Mr. Sixdogs, what are the details for the insulation? Interested for my own planning purposes.
I have an Amish crew giving me the estimate so not positive but I've seen other buildings they've done. I saw them use spray canned foam to seal where pipes and wires come through and then use batten insulation in the walls. Wide widths.

Then they covered it with thin metal. I don't know what went in the ceiling but it would probably be batten or blown-in.

For a pole barn, batten in the walls seems to be the standard. Blown-in of the ceiling is likely standard because I don't think you can walk much on the roof trusses.
 
   / Need propane heater ideas for insulated 42x60 Morton bldg #25  
The radiant tube heater guys won't publish efficiency ratings but as non-condensing heaters they are generally somewhere between 50-80% AFUE (estimated closer to 50-60% on the high end for tube heaters) for non-condensing furnaces. High efficiency condensing furnaces can get up to 98% AFUE.

Some info on condensing vs non-condensing

Some info on radiant tube heater "efficiency"

The sales guys will always fill your ears with BS and lies until they get the sale then will ghost you when their taglines fail to meet up with the hype. You will hear "100% efficient radiant heat" but a butt-load of waste heat ends up going outside through the exhaust and does nothing to heat your building vs the cost of propane consumed.

I can tell you that my radiant heater system running propane costs an arm and a leg to operate and I keep the temps low because of the high operating costs at $2-$4/gallon of propane. If you don't want to believe reality come on over and we'll stick a thermometer in the exhaust pipe and you can see for yourself how "efficient" the combustion process is. Bring some beers while you are at it!
Standard ANSI radiant tube heater is 70% AFUE.

The manufacturer I'm familiar with per tube heaters offers radiant tube heaters in 75% AFUE, 78% AFUE, 80% AFUE and 82% AFUE. Those are published ratings by the way.

I consider myself somewhat familiar with conventional unit heaters. Most unit heaters sold for commercial applications are in the 80%-84% AFUE range (at least in my neck of the woods due to each of power venting the unit).

It's been while since I clocked a gas furnace, and I'll take your word for it on your tube heater That said, by using a tube heater, you won't need the same BTU output as you can get by with a lower BTU amount because you're not heating the entire area with a tube heater, but a specific area.

I'd need to look at some larger jobs done in the past, but so far, no complaints on gas usage, and that's from some that are on LP (as noted, most are commercial use).

I have no dog in this fight, only pointing out that if a conditioned space has a manual D done on it accurately and a tube heater job is laid out correctly, it will cost less money to operate in the long run gas wise vs a conventional unit heater.

Tube heaters probably get a bad rap, just like high velocity HVAC systems, just because they aren't laid out properly for commercial application (as noted, large garage doors opening and closing need to be paid special attention as to the garbage in, garbage out per how often and long they are opened).

That said, the upfront cost of tube heaters have a higher up front cost than a simple conventional unit heater along with a higher labor cost.

All that said, we can still agree to disagree;)
 
   / Need propane heater ideas for insulated 42x60 Morton bldg #26  
After I retired I started working for a local HVAC contractor. We have radiant tube heaters in the main shop (60x100') and it works great! I have a propane forced air unit in my 30x40' shop and I have been thinking hard about adding a radiant tube heater to my shop.

I also know his heating costs are exceptionally low and we work all winter in tee shirts comfortably.
 
   / Need propane heater ideas for insulated 42x60 Morton bldg #27  
After I retired I started working for a local HVAC contractor. We have radiant tube heaters in the main shop (60x100') and it works great! I have a propane forced air unit in my 30x40' shop and I have been thinking hard about adding a radiant tube heater to my shop.

I also know his heating costs are exceptionally low and we work all winter in tee shirts comfortably.
It's nice to know I'm not completely out in left field (y) LOL
 
   / Need propane heater ideas for insulated 42x60 Morton bldg
  • Thread Starter
#28  
After I retired I started working for a local HVAC contractor. We have radiant tube heaters in the main shop (60x100') and it works great! I have a propane forced air unit in my 30x40' shop and I have been thinking hard about adding a radiant tube heater to my shop.

I also know his heating costs are exceptionally low and we work all winter in tee shirts comfortably.
A propane forced air heater sounds like it might work for my 42x60 and 14 ft high building. Can you tell me more about this one? Any idea what it costs?
 
   / Need propane heater ideas for insulated 42x60 Morton bldg #29  
I have an Amish crew giving me the estimate so not positive but I've seen other buildings they've done. I saw them use spray canned foam to seal where pipes and wires come through and then use batten insulation in the walls. Wide widths.

Then they covered it with thin metal. I don't know what went in the ceiling but it would probably be batten or blown-in.

For a pole barn, batten in the walls seems to be the standard. Blown-in of the ceiling is likely standard because I don't think you can walk much on the roof trusses.
A few years after my shed was built and ceiling insulated, the Morten guys came back and finished off the inside walls.

The posts were 7.5' apart. The batts of Rockwool insulation they used were so big, one piece of insulation fit snugly from post to post & floor to ceiling.

Check them out, they may have competitive price.
 
   / Need propane heater ideas for insulated 42x60 Morton bldg #30  
How big is your shop?
I have VAL6 diesel heater but afraid to leave running when I'm not there.
My shop is small - 20x24. It's an old log cabin. Six inch logs and no insulation. HOWEVER - run my salamander heater for 20 minutes and it's as hot as I ever need.

I NEVER leave the heater running while I'm not there.
 

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