JD 2305 wont start

[BrockInCG]

Hello and hey.
First post, long time lurker though. I've searched and while some of the results have been helpful (pics of parts, schematics, etc) have been helpful I've not been able to fix this **** tractor. I'm not *exactly* an idiot, but I'm pretty close to an useless with internal combustion engines I think. I know electronics and other stuff, but engines are a mystery. On to the issue(s)...

A JD 2305, eight or so years old. Not a lot of hours (~400). I can be a couple months between uses in the winter/spring. It's been a good little workhorse and gets the job done in tight spaces and STEEP terrain.

I went to use it to plow a bunch of snow off our drive a while ago and it started fine, but when I would shift into gear it would die immediately, several times (turning on PTO would do the same thing). Eventually ran for about 15 minutes, ran "normal" then died. Hasn't started since. It's been in the garage since. I've checked the fuses, v4 diode (that many have reported having issues with), fuel shutoff and other minor electrical stuff. Everything was operating as it should. I've ventured into the engine compartment a bit more and took the fuel filter out/checked flow and it's good there. There's good flow at the braided hose that goes into what I'm calling the pump/injector block (hose comes from fuel filter and then hardlines leave it to the engine block). I took the hardlines off the engine block end to see if there was good flow there and it was just a tiny bit from each. It wasn't a spurt or much, even while cranking. A tiny drip, if that. Cranking it with the hose off the "pump" the fuel flow was obnoxious (constantly spurting). I took the hardlines all the way off and "cleared" them. No blockages. Still won't start.

A buddy said drain the fuel and put new in, perhaps the fuel is "bad". What else should I do? I don't need to hear "Buy a Kubota". We have what we have. Thanks in advance and I definitely appreciate the assistance. Feeling a bit frustrated.

Brock...

 

[nickc]

start with the obvious-- check you seat switch first, mine went bad in a month

 

[BrockInCG]

Thanks for the reply.
It cranks, like a champ...just won't run, catch. In my understanding the seat switch interrupts the process and won't even let it crank. FWIW, I bypassed the seat switch years ago.

 

[Tx Jim]

Do you have GOOD fuel flow from tank to inj pump???? Is tank vent open IE not plugged?

 

[BrockInCG]

No clue about vent, but I'll find it and check. The injector pump squirts an obnoxious amount of fuel while cranking. I didn't measure it, but it was quite a bit. Thank you.

Brock...

 

[Utopia Texas]

After you took the lines apart did you bleed the system? Even if the injector is working properly the tiniest air bubble in the system will keep a diesel from starting.

 

[BrockInCG]

See, this is one of the reasons I feel like an *** with this engine stuff: didn't know I needed to bleed it. Don't know how. I can bleed brakes! Doesn't help here though. I'll figure it out and make it happen. Thank you for the tip.

Brock...

 

[Utopia Texas]

Not familiar with your tractor but on most there are slotted screw heads or tiny bolt heads that are opened until all bubbling stops and pure fluid flows through. Some of these bleed areas are at the top of the bowl filter, where the fluid line flows into the injector and on the exit side of the injector. Someone familiar with your unit will write in and let you know where you need to do this on your unit. Bleed in order from the tank forward. This also needs to be done if you ever run out of fuel.

 

[Coyote machine]

Hello and hey.
First post, long time lurker though. I've searched and while some of the results have been helpful (pics of parts, schematics, etc) have been helpful I've not been able to fix this **** tractor. I'm not *exactly* an idiot, but I'm pretty close to an useless with internal combustion engines I think. I know electronics and other stuff, but engines are a mystery. On to the issue(s)...

A JD 2305, eight or so years old. Not a lot of hours (~400). I can be a couple months between uses in the winter/spring. It's been a good little workhorse and gets the job done in tight spaces and STEEP terrain.

I went to use it to plow a bunch of snow off our drive a while ago and it started fine, but when I would shift into gear it would die immediately, several times (turning on PTO would do the same thing). Eventually ran for about 15 minutes, ran "normal" then died. Hasn't started since. It's been in the garage since.
So far it sounds like fuel starvation- dies when you put it into gear, (load on engine) and try to move. Not sure why PTO engaged would make it die, unless it's getting very little fuel... I've checked the fuses, v4 diode (that many have reported having issues with), fuel shutoff {What did you do to verify this item?} and other minor electrical stuff. Everything was operating as it should. I've ventured into the engine compartment a bit more and took the fuel filter out/checked flow and it's good there~ How did you check flow here? Did you replace the filter with a new one? Was there any evidence of wax or water in the fuel bowl? What was the outside temperature when it stalled out? There's good flow at the braided hose that goes into what I'm calling the pump/injector block (hose comes from fuel filter and then hardlines leave it to the engine block). I took the hardlines off the engine block end to see if there was good flow there and it was just a tiny bit from each. It wasn't a spurt or much, even while cranking. A tiny drip, if that. It could be something blocking the flow inside the IP, (injection pump), depending on exactly how much fuel is at each injector nozzle... Cranking it with the hose off the "pump" the fuel flow was obnoxious (constantly spurting). I took the hardlines all the way off and "cleared" them. No blockages. But you haven't tested the individual injectors to see if they are spraying or just dripping fuel. If they're not spraying and at the correct pressure and pattern then you would have run issues... Still won't start.

A buddy said drain the fuel and put new in, perhaps the fuel is "bad". What else should I do? I don't need to hear "Buy a Kubota". We have what we have. Thanks in advance and I definitely appreciate the assistance. Feeling a bit frustrated.

Brock...

Answer what you know about what's above in red text, thx,

CM

 

[Tx Jim]

This video isn't for your model tractor but it will give you an idea of what you need to do to get your tractor running.
JD 5203 John Deere tractor fuel filter change - YouTube

 

[Jerry/MT]

See, this is one of the reasons I feel like an *** with this engine stuff: didn't know I needed to bleed it. Don't know how. I can bleed brakes! Doesn't help here though. I'll figure it out and make it happen. Thank you for the tip.

Brock...

Here's a generic method for bleeding a diesel fuel system i put together several years ago.
Bleeding a Diesel Fuel System


Start at the fuel outlet of the tank (inlet to the filter). Shut the tank valve, remove the line at the filter inlet and holding a suitable container to catch the diesel fuel, open the valve. You should have a CONTINUOUS rush/flow of fuel out of the line. If it dribbles or is intermittent, check the fuel cap for a blockage of the fuel vent or the strainer upstream of the valve for clogging. The strainer/screen is attached to the shut-off valve, and is positioned up inside the tank. You will have to drain the tank and pull the valve to clean the screen.
If you have good fuel flow at that point, reconnect the line and open the bleeder screw at the top of the filter. Turn on the tank valve and wait till you have a steady flow of fuel with no bubbles at the top of the filter, then close the bleeder screw.
Your pump may have a bleeder screw. If so, open that until fuel streams out with no bubbles, then close it. If you cannot identify the bleeder screw, loosen the inlet connection at the pump and purge air at that point.
Go back and make sure ALL the fittings in the fuel delivery system are tight so they cannot suck air.
Make sure the battery is fully charged. Loosen the fuel fittings at the injectors, either one at a time or all at once. Crank the engine till you see all fuel at the injector fittings and then tighten the fittings. If you do indvidual fittings, the engine will usually start before you get to the last fitting.
Alternatively, you can "tow-start" it to save wear and tear on your starter. Leave the injector lines cracked open at the injectors at first to purge the lines. Then tighten them up and she should start.
Your injection pump puts out a very small amount of fuel (high pressure/low volume). BE PATIENT. If the lines are totally empty, it takes a lot of cranking to fill them up.
sixbales & Jerry/MT

 

[BrockInCG]

Answer what you know about what's above in red text, thx,

CM

First, thank you a ton to everyone who's replied. I still haven't gotten it started, but at least I'm making progress...I think.

Answering CM's questions:
I checked the shutoff solenoid by pulling it and observing that it pulled and held until the switch was turned off and then it popped out. Should it pull in fully and stay fully in until the switch is turned off or something different? I also tried to start it with the solenoid out and it didn't start (I've read a few places that if the solenoid is the issue it will start when removed).

I checked the flow by removing the fuel inlet hose and it came out like gangbusters, full stream. I pulled the filter (didn't replace, can't find one locally yet, but I'm going to get one when I go to the "big city" Friday) and there wasn't really anything but fuel in it. Tough to tell though, 'cuz I did this in the snow (first thing I did). Ambient temp was somewhere under 30, but over 20. It's been over 40 for a while now and it's in the garage since which is usually over 50. I couldn't notice much about the fuel that first day taking the filter off, but today I drained a bit of fuel out of the tank (removed intake hose from filter) into a clean (yes) bucket and it's doesn't look "normal" diesel yellow/clear. It's cloudy. Only drained 8 or 10 ounces.

I've "cracked"/removed hardlines from injectors twice and this last time I took them off from the injector "block" (for lack of a better term) side and there was a pretty decent "squirt/spray" from them. Seemed reasonable amount this time, or at least made a small mess of fuel. Wasn't a huge amount, but noticeable.

Thank you for taking the time.

Also, I've looked and can not find bleed screws/ports on the filter housing or pump. There's a spring loaded lever to the side of the IP. I read it's a primer, no clue if that's accurate. The video could be helpful, but the filter on the 2305 is nothing like that one. It's, visually, more like one you'd find on an air compressor (clear cylinder with element inside which slides onto a nipple/nozzle).

Thanks again folks.

Brock...

 

[Coyote machine]

Cloudy fuel is a clue. It could be water contaminated. Maybe take a sample in a plastic sealed container, to the big city and compare it to fresh diesel and see how they stack up. Bring an empty diesel fuel container so you can get fresh diesel to take back to the tractor to use in case you confirm water present in your current fuel supply. Do you have an on site fuel tank you use for the tractor?
See if the place you go to get a clean sample has any water test strips, if not you may be able to get some from a auto parts store.
If your fuel is contaminated you will need to drain your tank on the tractor. Get a couple of fuel filters to have on hand to troubleshoot this problem. Water is very bad for your engine and you must determine if it is present before doing anything else.

 

[buickanddeere]

Drain all fuel, replace and filter and refill with real #1 winter diesel or Jet A-1 Kerosene ( not the same b.t.w. ). Bleed the fuel system and let er rip.

 

[BrockInCG]

Drained old fuel, changed filter, got new fuel, bled it the way I found in JD service guide/manual (pump lever on side of fuel pump until you hear fuel returns to tank)...won't start.

Brock. ..

 

[Jerry/MT]

Drained old fuel, changed filter, got new fuel, bled it the way I found in JD service guide/manual (pump lever on side of fuel pump until you hear fuel returns to tank)...won't start.

Brock. ..

Do you have air free fuel at the top of the filter housing? Dos you pump have a bleed screw? Hve you bled in the injectors?

 

[BrockInCG]

Do you have air free fuel at the top of the filter housing? Dos you pump have a bleed screw? Hve you bled in the injectors?

Yes, No & I bled/cracked the injectors like your post above. Just about to set fire to this thing.

Brock...

 

[Coyote machine]

Yes, No & I bled/cracked the injectors like your post above. Just about to set fire to this thing.

Brock...

Whoa, not yet.When you feel like buying a Kubota, then set it on fire!
Seriously, you're close to a solution but need to answer some more of my questions to get to the bottom of this problem. First, understand that diesels work off compression ignition, CI. That means fuel and engine spinning creates compression, and when the atomized fuel is compressed to where it explodes and moves the pistons in the cylinders, then your engine is running. High compression takes place of spark in a gas engine.
So your engine is turning, when you crank it with the starter, and therefore you have compression. Now you need atomized fuel, which it would seem you are missing.

Was there evidence of water in your fuel? If so where did you get the fuel you have in your tank now?
Have you checked you oil level and looked for it to be overfilled or any milkyness to it's color or consistency?
Do you definitely have fuel delivery to the injectors when you crank the engine?
Please answer these and the other questions I posed in my last post so we can get you back on track.

Thanks,

CM

 

[BrockInCG]

Whoa, not yet.When you feel like buying a Kubota, then set it on fire!
Seriously, you're close to a solution but need to answer some more of my questions to get to the bottom of this problem. First, understand that diesels work off compression ignition, CI. That means fuel and engine spinning creates compression, and when the atomized fuel is compressed to where it explodes and moves the pistons in the cylinders, then your engine is running. High compression takes place of spark in a gas engine.
So your engine is turning, when you crank it with the starter, and therefore you have compression. Now you need atomized fuel, which it would seem you are missing.

Was there evidence of water in your fuel? If so where did you get the fuel you have in your tank now?
Have you checked you oil level and looked for it to be overfilled or any milkyness to it's color or consistency?
Do you definitely have fuel delivery to the injectors when you crank the engine?
Please answer these and the other questions I posed in my last post so we can get you back on track.

Thanks,

CM

Thanks again.

There seemed to be water in the fuel (and auto parts guy said it looked like it FWIW; they didn't have water test strips). My "fuel storage" is two 5 gallon cans. The tractor and cans live outside. The cans under partial/mostly covered but tractor out in open for the most part. I got the fuel I just put in from a local station I've bought from quite a bit (for gas and diesel) and not had any issues with. While draining tractor tank the fuel remained cloudy the whole time (new fuel (put in new can...) was clear; fuel in both "old" cans had sediment, fir needles, tiny globs in it, but one can was clear and the other partially cloudy).

Oil level seems OK. Tiny bit over, but not much. I can drain some. Oil is not milky. If anything it's time for a change, but it's not bad. Just changed the hydro filter/fluid not too long ago. Regardless if I crack the hardline at the injector block or up at engine block there's fuel coming out when I crank or use the primer lever on the fuel pump. I've taken the hoses off (I've since bled it) from filter forward to engine block and fuel moves/squirts/drains/spurts/etc. All three injectors "ooze" fuel while cranking/pumping. The middle one is less obnoxious, but I'm not guaranteeing I've loosened it as much as the two outside ones since it's a total PITA to get at with my wrench. It was loose (and off once when seeing if line was clogged) though.

I kept thinking it's some electrical thing, but like you say...it's turning plus when I pulled the shutoff solenoid it worked (plunger pulled as soon as engine cranked and held until key turned to off). Checked the diodes (good), checked fuses in engine compartment (good), new filter, new fuel, in neutral, PTO off, seat switch bypassed. I suddenly have a surplus of bad diesel on hand and thanks to the ice storm last weekend A metric **** ton of brush to burn and firewood laying around. Could tow the JD into the big burn pile, roast some carcinogenic marshmallows...make a show of it.

I definitely appreciate the assistance.

Brock...

 

[Coyote machine]

What about glow plugs and preheating the combustion chamber before cranking the engine? I'm not real familiar with your specific tractor, so tell me what exactly you do to start it when it's cold out.
With all the things you say were in your 5 gallon fuel containers your general fuel supply isn't cutting it. Going forward you need to protect it from all types of contaminants, especially water.
It's still a possibility that injectors or your injection pump may have sustained damage from particulate matter and water.
Water can rust the internal parts of the IP and cause irreparable damage.
First let's see what your start proceedure is and go from there.