You will never touch those numbers with a gas motor. Just not enough energy in the fuel to propel a 2.5 ton truck through the air at test speeds without getting into boost.
Ram1500 EcoDiesel V6 revealed!
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You will never touch those numbers with a gas motor. Just not enough energy in the fuel to propel a 2.5 ton truck through the air at test speeds without getting into boost.
jejeosborne
Veteran Member
I agree they won't touch the Rams numbers. I'm guessing it will get 25 highway, 18 city. Just a guess.
A gas motor doesn't have to be equal to be more cost effective with the fuel price spread. I think that has been well discussed.
fordmantpw
Veteran Member
The V6 Ram already gets 25 with a 3.6L V6, so expecting the 2.7L EcoBoost in a 700 lb lighter F150 with other aero and technical enhancements to squeeze an extra 2 MPG out of it isn't that big of a stretch. Notice, I said nearly, not identical numbers to the Ram diesel. Personally, I'm thinking we will see 27-28 MPG out of the 2.7L F150. When the 10 speed tranny hits the F150, look for an extra 2 MPG for numbers right near 30 MPG.
But you are correct, you don't have to match the diesel numbers for cost per mile to be less.
It's not a matter of cost effectiveness anymore. If the truck makers do not hit the EPA and CAFE numbers set out in the coming legislation, we will ALL be paying a gas guzzler surcharge on our vehicles.
fordmantpw
Veteran Member
Well, it IS a matter of cost effectiveness. From my understanding, there will be no non-compliance gas guzzler tax any more with the new round of regulations. If the manufacturer's fleet doesn't meet CAFE, they don't sell. You can't just pay a fine and pass it on to the customers any more. Those days will be over, so manufacturers have no choice but to meet CAFE.
Now, as far as cost effectiveness, if the vehicle isn't cost effective, customers won't buy it. If customers don't buy it, it doesn't help your CAFE numbers. So, if you have a truck that gets 40 MPG, but has a 20k upcharge, that's not going to do anything to your CAFE if your customers don't think the extra MPG is worth 20k. See how cost effectiveness is VERY important?
Now, that's why (I think) Ford went the GTDI approach vs. diesel. Ford knows what truck customers want, and Ford knows that buyers will see that $3k upcharge for a diesel, in which they get to pay extra for fuel, plus it's 'stinky' (the past still sticks in people's minds, and some folks just don't want to mess with diesel fuel), and Ford knows that gas will be a better sell. So, if they can come close to Ram's numbers on gas (and I think they will), with a lower cost of entry, they will be much better off in the long run. Even if Ford is 1 MPG less than Ram, selling 100k trucks at 27 MPG helps your CAFE more than selling 20k trucks at 28 MPG.
Ford put the money into getting better fuel economy across the board with a lighter, more fuel-efficient truck for the long term as opposed to throwing a diesel in for short term gains.
Why do you think a 10-speed tranny is going to give you that much more fuel mileage? The extra speeds only help in city driving. I would bet that if you looked at any tranny (4,5,6+speed) the final ratio would be really close. I think the 6 speeds that are out now are plenty fine, what more does an extra 2 or 4 gears give you besides that much more to break?
fordmantpw
Veteran Member
I'm going off estimates from industry experts predicting an 8-10% increase in fuel economy going to 10 speeds from 6. It's not all about final drive ratio, you know. It's about keeping the engine in the heart of the power band and increasing efficiency of the tranny itself.
And a 2 MPG improvement is only about a 7% increase from 27 MPG, so I don't think it's out of the question.
DeereMann
Platinum Member
GDI will win vs. diesel IF the EPA does not use a heavily-weighted high-load engine test. But if they do, GDI will lose because it will shift to homogeneous fuel/air ratio (stoichiometric) & suck gas like a pig, just like today.
We shall see what happens in the land of government-mandated design!
We shall see what happens in the land of government-mandated design!
Diamondpilot
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The 10 speed tranny with 12 gears in it might just do it. Should be in the 2015's with the Eco Boost.
Chris
Ram already two years with 8, and it is sweet, let me tell you.