Has Agriculture Reached Its Peak?

[dave1949]

I wonder how well these hydroponic fodder systems work?
https://www.farmtek.com/farm/supplies/cat1a;ft_fodder_systems.html

Replace the fish with warm-blooded edible protein.

 

[charlz]

I wonder how well these hydroponic fodder systems work?
https://www.farmtek.com/farm/supplies/cat1a;ft_fodder_systems.html

Replace the fish with warm-blooded edible protein.

I think I saw that posted here somewhere before ... or maybe I saw it on Discovery or something. Seems like a lot of overhead when compared with a hay field I also saw an article or paper about growing Duckweed for cattle fodder.... using their waste as the fertilizer/nutrients in an hydroponic system. Supposedly people can eat Duckweed as well, like a salad. However if it was grown in barn yard runoff I might want it cooked... and thoroughly

 

[dave1949]

The fact that Tilapia can live and thrive in brackish water is the real benefit with using them in aquaponics. Trout and salmon farms consume million of gallons of fresh water because they do not do well in recirculated water and need colder temperatures. Out west you find trout farms on/in small rivers which has the problem of their waste going downstream. There are some salmon farms here in Idaho that use Artesian wells but they also have the problem of effluent going out into rivers etc. Tilapia work well in the recirculating systems as the water doesn't have to be 'pure'.

I think of tilapia as being very tolerant of water quality, like carp. Maintaining water quality without being a pollution point source would be a challenge on any kind of operation scale. It would be smart to intentionally produce a fertilizer by-product maybe? Or, algae that are used for fuel production stock is being worked on.

 

[dave1949]

I think I saw that posted here somewhere before ... or maybe I saw it on Discovery or something. Seems like a lot of overhead when compared with a hay field I also saw an article or paper about growing Duckweed for cattle fodder.... using their waste as the fertilizer/nutrients in an hydroponic system. Supposedly people can eat Duckweed as well, like a salad. However if it was grown in barn yard runoff I might want it cooked... and thoroughly

Hay fields are not all that cheap:
1. land (taxes)
2. tractor
3. fertilizer
4. cutters, tedders and rakes
5. baler
6. bale storage

The hydroponic fodder system:
1. eliminates bad weather
2. produces a consistent nutrient content, always fresh (maybe?)
3. building & infrastructure (taxes)
4. maybe higher total energy input than hay, but it can be derived from renewable sources unlike diesel fuel in a tractor.

 

[DFB]

I did some reading on hydroponics and aquaponics last year, just a looking around and thinking sort of thing.

The water temperature of 75F and above needed by tilapia is an energy challenge in the north. The fry to market size time forces you to get them through a winter. Greenhouses in the north are always going to be an energy challenge for a home grower to operate them year-round. Tilapia is not a very tasty fish IMO. I haven't eaten them much, so maybe I have a wrong impression.

A tastier fish that thrives in cooler water would be a better choice from the energy input perspective. That would allow shutting down the plant growing side of the operation to just those plants that can get through colder temps, for the heart of winter when heating costs are highest.

I notice the people in the article produce heat using an anthracite stoker furnace. I take that as they burn coal, which is not something I would do.

An outdoor wood boiler combined with earth-bermed passive solar building techniques would be my choice. The passive solar should reduce the wood heat requirement considerably, but I think it would still be needed. It is difficult/expensive to build a greenhouse that admits sufficient light for plants and passive heating while not loosing a lot of heat overnight and during cloudy days.

If enough engineering and tinkering went into it, a person could build motorized insulated sliding ceiling panels or something that controlled heat loss. Use solar pv to supplement sunlight and controls to decide which is optimal (sunlight or lamp light) during the day.

There needs to be some plan for taming energy costs in northern climates or it becomes cost-prohibitive. I think that is why three season high tunnels and hoop houses are popular, as opposed to year-round greenhouse operations, for home growers.[/url]

You know in all my references I still have not seen things like that attempted much. Most times things have been done low tech with the growers being on low budget operations. If someone can see the profitability in such system it would indeed make the endeavor worthwhile. Need for the 4 season field just continuous to increase (at least around here) I had one restaurant want all the cress I could possibly grow for their signature salads and as long as it was fresh and local and they really weren't concerned with the cost to them. (assume they would need to be comfortable with the growing practice also)

Many times I have envisioned a northern climate greenhouse with some type insulated panels that you fold out, drop or roll down at night just like a curtain...I don't think it be THAT hard to do.

Obviously certain practices are tried and true and there is no use reinventing the wheel on some things but that said seriously there is a lot technique is still open to experimentation with necessity being the mother of invention...right!

 

[DFB]

Anybody see the article on a Florida hydroponic greenhouse operation that exclusively supplies greens and fresh herbs to several high-end restaurants at the Walt Disney World resorts, along with Emeril’s Orlando, Ritz Carlton, Marriott World Center, Hilton, and a few others....nice!

Local Tower Garden Farmer Produces Aeroponic Food for Disney, Emeril’s, and other Fine Orlando Restaurants | Future Growing LLC

 

[dave1949]

You know in all my references I still have not seen things like that attempted much. Most times things have been done low tech with the growers being on low budget operations. If someone can see the profitability in such system it would indeed make the endeavor worthwhile. Need for the 4 season field just continuous to increase (at least around here) I had one restaurant want all the cress I could possibly grow for their signature salads and as long as it was fresh and local and they really weren't concerned with the cost to them. (assume they would need to be comfortable with the growing practice also)

Many times I have envisioned a northern climate greenhouse with some type insulated panels that you fold out, drop or roll down at night just like a curtain...I don't think it be THAT hard to do.

Obviously certain practices are tried and true and there is no use reinventing the wheel on some things but that said seriously there is a lot technique is still open to experimentation with necessity being the mother of invention...right!

In your four-season fields, how much supplemental heat do you use, if any?

Eliot Coleman is well known. He uses unheated hoop houses with a second layer of row cover in winter. That works for cool weather tolerant crops, but how can it be economically extended to grow warm climate things year-round? It is usually a bit colder here in Western Maine than where Coleman is near the coast.
Four Season Farm - Welcome to the site of Eliot Coleman and Barbara Damrosch

I don't recall if it was Coleman or another local grower who gave up heating in winter as too expensive and too risky. He was using propane IIRC. The gist was the fuel was too costly to begin with, and any glitch in the greenhouse cover or furnace is a real disaster real quick.

 

[charlz]

Many times I have envisioned a northern climate greenhouse with some type insulated panels that you fold out, drop or roll down at night just like a curtain...I don't think it be THAT hard to do.

MANY years ago I remember seeing an article where they used foam beads between the greenhouses glass panels for nighttime insulation. Had a system sort of like a giant shop vac. In the evening it blew the beads between the glass, in the morning it vacuumed them out. It was a pretty big space I think, like 2" or more between the glass panels. The foam beads were something like Styrofoam only it was just the individual beads and not molded into a sheet or whatever. I remember thinking static electricity might be a problem causing the beads to stick to the glass but they didn't mention it in the article.

 

[DFB]

Yea Coleman pioneered a lot of that stuff. I have his last book and one another.

I don't grow thru the winter at all. Most of my herbs and such go well up to thanksgiving uncovered on an exterior porch. Celery, parsley, sage, oregano, rosemary all did good for a long time. Even at the flower greenhouses the early cost are phenomenal. They keep it a bare minimum this time of the year one seed starting and incubator house going then the tomato house, plus one other flower house. Others open one at a time etc . We gave up on taking strawberries thru till the December Holiday Farmers Market...people loved them but again production just doesn't support the cost. Other problems are low light conditions that time of year slow downs growth. U MASS recently published an article saying how northern greenhouse production of tomatoes wasn't profitable under most circumstances for growers after monitoring production for many seasons. I see if I can locate it. Ha I always knew my boss wasn't making money on it!

Got it...

http://extension.umass.edu/vegetabl...es/newsletters/Feb 6 2014 Vegetable Notes.pdf

 

[DFB]

MANY years ago I remember seeing an article where they used foam beads between the greenhouses glass panels for nighttime insulation. Had a system sort of like a giant shop vac. In the evening it blew the beads between the glass, in the morning it vacuumed them out. It was a pretty big space I think, like 2" or more between the glass panels. The foam beads were something like Styrofoam only it was just the individual beads and not molded into a sheet or whatever. I remember thinking static electricity might be a problem causing the beads to stick to the glass but they didn't mention it in the article.

That's interesting charlz I have never seen or heard of that that I can recall.