50 hour Hydro Oil for the non believers

[TripleR]

I realize this is a Kioti forum, but have seen posts by owners of other brands, these threads fall into two categories (a) cheap insurance (b) waste of fluid. JOHNTHOMAS contacted Kubota abut this some time ago, but probably won't change anyones' minds, people seem to be firmly entrenched on both sides.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...g/163630-reply-kubota-concerning-50-hour.html

 

[ray66v]

these threads fall into two categories (a) cheap insurance (b) waste of fluid.[/url]

I understand the connotation. But, I don't see a 50 hr, as "cheap".

I think cost is biggest the issue.

 

[Coyote machine]

Did it ever occur to anyone that specifying a 50 hour fluid change is a way for the manufacturer to cover their butts. If one can't proove having done a 50 hour service a dealer/manufacturer could use that against the customer to deny coverage under warranty. It's similar to the 3K oil changes that were the rage until synthetic oils started showing up.
No doubt clean fluid is a benefit in any recent HST or engine, diesel or gas. The contaminants found in the sump are not getting past the hydro filter, but are being caught up at the sump, thus the magnets and hydro filters are doing their jobs.
Changing the fluids at 50 is a peace of mind and wallet based decision, IMHO, for most owners. i prefer to NOT do the change and have not. I went 350 hours on first hydro and traded the tractor to go to the DK-40 from the DK-35. Haven't done a hydro fluid change on it either and am at 600+ hours. plan to do one at some point, just not pressed to do it at any particular interval/hour marker. Do do the filter changes on hour marker standards.
I agree with CJ, that the tolerances are refined from the 'good 'ole days; and one can pay me now or later, depending on a lot of factors. It occurs to me that how one hooks up aux equipment to the QDs could be a possible source for dirt, etc. to enter the system. It is my personal observation that on most equipment use I see, other than my own, hoses get connected to dirty female QDs on a regular basis and little care is taken to insure caps are kept on the male and female ends to prevent dirt and water from getting into the hydro system. YMMV.

 

[ray66v]

I really think it's just old thinking. That explains why it appears to be evolving.

The same kind of thing happens with constriction practices.

Experienced people who make the decisions, generally like to do things the way they always have. And, change may only happen as the "old guard" "dies off". When younger guys come along to replace them, they tend to be more receptive to doing things in new and, different ways.

 

[grm61]

So maybe the filters pick up enough to keep the hydraulic pump and hydrostat alive...I saw what i saw in my oil.

Y'all do what you want, but last time I checked, dirt, grit, and metals, are abrasive to gears, bearings and seals...some of these live in these sumps where this crap collects and get stirred up.

I was happy to see it go..

 

[k0ua]

On an interesting side note, I bought an old used 82 Oldsmobile once for $500 that had about 160,000 mile on it. It was driven by a Catholic Priest from day one until the day he died. He kept very detailed service records on the car, and changed the oil at 3000 miles "religiously" pun intended.. the engine really ran well ( a 350) but I noticed on the service record there was no mention of ever having changed the automatic (turbohydramatic 400) transmission fluid. Whoops. The transmission slipped a fair amount if you got on it and wound her out. So I decided to see what was inside. When the pan was dropped, the blackest tar I have ever seen came out along with the white nylon plug that plugs up the dipstick hole from the factory, and there was a bunch of clutch sludge in the bottom of the pan. Putting in new fluid did not improve the slipping tranny, and I soon gave it an Earl Schieb $89 paint job after I bondo'd shut the hole in the drivers side door from the steel fence post the priest had hit, and I traded it off. So you can get away without servicing some things. Would the Tranny have been in better shape if it had been serviced?.. I dunno.. but GM seems to think they should have had the fluid changed every 24000 miles in those days. The car was still pulling itself when I got rid of it at somewhere north of 168,000, but it could have been a bunch better!

 

[CJONE]

CJone, So the factory filtration systems are useless?

No they are not useless. They are the only thing that keeps anything alive because of oil not being changed and all the crud coming from the gears and brake discs on these machines. Wonder why almost all industrial machines have separate Hyd oil and trans reservoirs. For longevity. Anyway I will almost bet the primary (Suction) filter is 10 micron and the hydrostatic filter probably is the same or a little less. All the units I build have 5 micron absolute on the suction and a 2 micron off line filtration. They last. But the 2 micron filters have to be changed frequently. By the amount of complaining about the pressure side filter being expensive I highly doubt it would get changed enough. So the mfg chose the lesser of 2 evils. A little dirtier oil than starving the hydrostat which results in almost immediate failure. So back to the begining, I plan on having this unit for more than 2000 hours so the oil got changed. Sad to say but most of these little tractors never see 2000 hours, so I guess in that case the change may not be worth it. And with that reasoning the engine oil may not need changing either? CJ

 

[ray66v]

You would think these tractors are all junk, and there are oil related failures of engines, and transmissions, right and left, on them, rather than the complete opposite, based on the way we obsess about it.

 

[murphy1244]

On an interesting side note, I bought an old used 82 Oldsmobile once for $500 that had about 160,000 mile on it. It was driven by a Catholic Priest from day one until the day he died. He kept very detailed service records on the car, and changed the oil at 3000 miles "religiously" pun intended.. the engine really ran well ( a 350) but I noticed on the service record there was no mention of ever having changed the automatic (turbohydramatic 400) transmission fluid. Whoops. The transmission slipped a fair amount if you got on it and wound her out. So I decided to see what was inside. When the pan was dropped, the blackest tar I have ever seen came out along with the white nylon plug that plugs up the dipstick hole from the factory, and there was a bunch of clutch sludge in the bottom of the pan. Putting in new fluid did not improve the slipping tranny, and I soon gave it an Earl Schieb $89 paint job after I bondo'd shut the hole in the drivers side door from the steel fence post the priest had hit, and I traded it off. So you can get away without servicing some things. Would the Tranny have been in better shape if it had been serviced?.. I dunno.. but GM seems to think they should have had the fluid changed every 24000 miles in those days. The car was still pulling itself when I got rid of it at somewhere north of 168,000, but it could have been a bunch better!

I;m impressed a 1980 GM would even do 160,000 miles even if towed. You have to omit that that dirty trans worked even with all that junk in it. You sure that was a TH-400??? in 82?

 

[ritcheyvs]

Oil does not wear out...

I don't think that's entirely true, at least not with motor oil. As I understand it, in motor oil, the molecule chains get chopped up (sheared) over time compromising viscosity. Of course, I could be misinformed.