EPA issue ban on wood stoves

[dave1949]

Dave, your comment regarding forced convection only applies to previously exempted heaters like the outdoor boilers. Excess air as an emission control strategy was what we had prior to catalytic converters - so about mid 80s technology. It still gets used for cold start on gasoline vehicles. But that alone would not suffice to meet the new standards which are only met by the very best catalytic or secondary air stoves today.

Burning off particulates requires a temperature of 1000F. Thats what it takes to ignite carbon - period. Burning off HC can be done at lower temperatures, but then only in conjunction with platinum or palladium. Secondary air stoves do everything at the same time at 1000F and so the efficiency is reduced due to hot stack temperatures. So it is fairly safe to say that there is going to be a big re-introduction of catalysts and an increase in price accordingly. Whether the next limit can be met by these methods is hard to say.

I see.

I was picturing a typical pellet stove that burns only a little bit of fuel at any given moment, but has a fan forcing air into the fire pot. Pellet stoves are pretty clean burning. It would be difficult to scale that design concept to regular firewood dimensions.

 

[westcliffe01]

The proposed rule tightens emissions on pellet stoves too, so the current designs will no longer work. Sooner or later you will need an O2 sensor and a means of adjusting the air to fuel ratio (servo/stepper motor or solenoid valve) along with control electronics and a power supply. Pellet stoves and outdoor boilers already have some parts of the system so its a partial increase in complexity. Woodstoves are a whole different animal, to light, stabilize, prevent run away during the initial volatile cook off, and then just maintain sufficient air during the coaling phase to reduce CO from being starved. Without a catalyst, the initial volatile phase is very difficult to control, most secondary air stoves like my PE T5 tend to run away and exceed 1200F thereby wasting a lot of heat up the stack.

 

[ultrarunner]

I keep saying what starts in California eventually goes nationwide...

Also, friends that sold their place in Oregon had to remove "Non Compliant" stove.

http://www.deq.state.or.us/aq/burning/woodstoves/questions.htm

Not only did they have to remove it... they are forbiden under penalty of law to sell it!

My city prohibits the install of any wood stove or wood fireplace the last time I checked and pays a bounty for removing existing ones.

Anyone that burns wood around here is branded a sinner... enough said.

 

[dave1949]

I keep saying what starts in California eventually goes nationwide...

Also, friends that sold their place in Oregon had to remove "Non Compliant" stove.

DEQ Air Quality Division Home

Not only did they have to remove it... they are forbiden under penalty of law to sell it!

My city prohibits the install of any wood stove or wood fireplace the last time I checked and pays a bounty for removing existing ones.

Anyone that burns wood around here is branded a sinner... enough said.

Interesting.

Devices Exempt From Removal Requirements

What wood heating devices are not required to be removed upon home sale?

These devices are not required to be certified, and do not need to be removed when a home is sold:

Antique stoves – Woodstoves built before 1940 that have an ornate construction and a current market value substantially higher than a common woodstove manufactured during the same period.

Central, wood fired furnaces – Indoor, ducted, thermostatically controlled devices with a dedicated cold air inlet and hot air outlet that connect to the heating ductwork for the entire house.

Cook stoves - An indoor wood-burning appliance designed for the primary purpose of cooking food.

Masonry fireplaces – There are two major types of wood-burning fireplaces, traditional masonry fireplaces that are typically built of brick or stone and are constructed on site by a mason; and "low mass" fireplaces that are engineered and pre-fabricated in a manufacturing facility prior to installation. Most fireplaces, whether masonry or low mass, are not used as a primary source of heat; their function is primarily for ambiance and secondary heating.

Masonry heaters – Site-built or site-assembled solid-fueled heating device, consisting of a firebox, a large masonry mass, and a maze of heat exchange channels. It stores heat from rapidly-burning fires within its masonry structure, and slowly releases the heat into the home throughout the day.

Pellet stoves – Similar in appearance to wood stoves; however, instead of wood, pellet stoves burn a renewable fuel made of ground, dried wood and other biomass wastes compressed into pellets. Unlike wood stoves and fireplaces, most pellet stoves need electricity to operate.

 

[ultrarunner]

If worse come to worse I'm putting Grandma's combo wood/gas chrome and porcelain Wedgewood stove in my kitchen... it won't fit the decor even though it's a thing of beauty and so far cooking is exempt everywhere as near as I can tell.

 

[dave1949]

If worse come to worse I'm putting Grandma's combo wood/gas chrome and porcelain Wedgewood stove in my kitchen... it won't fit the decor even though it's a thing of beauty and so far cooking is exempt everywhere as near as I can tell.

A man with a plan. I'll bet it is a beauty.

 

[super55]

The vagueness of the clause of "not being able to sell a fireplace that does not conform to current standards" is the one that worries me. If you are selling a house and the fireplace is considered contents and part of the house are you technically selling it or donating it.

The way oregon has their law written up is you have to either remove it, upgrade it or render it inoperable except for the ones with exceptions. In my situation I have a built in fireplace that is in a wall but it is a wood structure with masonry over it. Would it fall under masonry exception or since it can be gutted and remodeled would it require an upgrade.

I have a feeling realty lenders will require to make sure that fireplaces will be of the most recent compliance and up to current standards much the same they often require with a well with quality and rate of flow or septic systems being made larger if somebody added an addition to their house and the drain field no longer meets code for the number of bedrooms and bathrooms.

 

[NativeSon]

Patron it is then! But I won't play with a chainsaw, once I start on that stuff! Dueling chainsaws could be fun! I'm only good for about an hour of running one though. Must be a girl thing, but that is my limit each day, before I fatigue. And I can't use an 18" chainsaw at all! :irked:

FG-- Just kidding about drinking and playing with the saws. The vibration tires me out pretty fast and chain saws generally scare me anyway. An hour aday is more than enough and what's left will still be there tomorrow. And the Patron........I have to set a limit there too as it goes down way too easy.

Charlie

 

[NativeSon]

When woodstoves are banned, only criminals will have woodstoves.

I guess we'll have to hang out with the criminals to stay warm..........nah I'm not going to D.C.

Charlie

 

[farmgirl19]

FG-- Just kidding about drinking and playing with the saws. The vibration tires me out pretty fast and chain saws generally scare me anyway. An hour aday is more than enough and what's left will still be there tomorrow. And the Patron........I have to set a limit there too as it goes down way too easy.

Charlie

OK, so when we have this bonfire, it might mean a week of "work" getting things cleared and drinking Patron. And I think most of us have to state our limit on Patron, for the reason that you mentioned!

This miserable winter has me ready to go scour my brush piles to see if there is anything in them I can drag out and cut up for the fireplace! I have burned more wood this winter, than the last 2 winters combined! ullinghair: