150 Acres of Burnt Up Oak
- Thread starter RDrancher
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TomSeller
Super Member
How much value does pre-burnt firewood have
Tim
Right, you don't have to wait for it to dry.
OP
RDrancher
Veteran Member
Looking at the property on google earth this morning, three things are apparent. First off (and the good news), there are several large stands of survivors and scattered survivors in the main burn areas. Secondly, since the property is broken up with narrow roads and double-track trails and two runways, each section could be attacked individually with access from the staging areas to the roads. Third, it looks like a lot of the trees are regenerating growth at ground level.
Since regrowth is the intention in this case, what do you guys think about this plan? Keep in mind that the owner was initially looking at dozing, which would leave a lot of burn piles to deal with.
Using a Marshall Saw, cut the trees just below the canopy and pile the canopies. Then cut them off at ground level and stack the logs. This would work for the larger trees, but obviously the smaller trees would also go into the burn piles. Even in rockier areas where the stumps would be above ground, regrowth should take over the stump in time. The other benefit of using a Marshall Saw would be the slow blade speed, keeping soot down to a minimum.
I'm not too familiar with the logging aspect of things, so I'm not sure if the logs would be of any value, even for firewood.
Edited to add: This project doesn't need to be done all at once. If the plan above will work, I could do it, keep better control of the final outcome and end up with a satisfied customer with a nice piece of property to sell. Since the property is only an hour and change from my place, I could also keep my regular work going and devote a couple of days a week (or more) to the project.
Since regrowth is the intention in this case, what do you guys think about this plan? Keep in mind that the owner was initially looking at dozing, which would leave a lot of burn piles to deal with.
Using a Marshall Saw, cut the trees just below the canopy and pile the canopies. Then cut them off at ground level and stack the logs. This would work for the larger trees, but obviously the smaller trees would also go into the burn piles. Even in rockier areas where the stumps would be above ground, regrowth should take over the stump in time. The other benefit of using a Marshall Saw would be the slow blade speed, keeping soot down to a minimum.
I'm not too familiar with the logging aspect of things, so I'm not sure if the logs would be of any value, even for firewood.
Edited to add: This project doesn't need to be done all at once. If the plan above will work, I could do it, keep better control of the final outcome and end up with a satisfied customer with a nice piece of property to sell. Since the property is only an hour and change from my place, I could also keep my regular work going and devote a couple of days a week (or more) to the project.
yellowdogsvc
Platinum Member
Because of the rock, something efficient like a forestry feller would tear up teeth. The Marshall type saw will cut up 30" trees even if they are hard according to the manufacturer. I haven't used one. My hand crews can clear fast, too, if they are just felling but hand cut stumps will be higher.
As we discussed, the locals might not feel real good about a big fire that smolders for weeks (when stumps are in the piles) after such a devastating fire. My advice would be to leave the stumps in the ground for now. Areas where stumps need to come out can be ground or a few can be dug out. It's so much less disturbance and with grasses and underbrush starting to recover, it will be better for the ground.
I think someone can do a good job, fix the problem, and line up a couple of months worth of work with a project like this. Personally, if it was close to me, I'd look hard at it and break it up into smaller projects so my regular customers wouldn't get too anxious waiting for me to complete a big project.
Marshall 12" Tree Saw Model 1200 Quick Attach for Front of Skid Steer New | eBay
As we discussed, the locals might not feel real good about a big fire that smolders for weeks (when stumps are in the piles) after such a devastating fire. My advice would be to leave the stumps in the ground for now. Areas where stumps need to come out can be ground or a few can be dug out. It's so much less disturbance and with grasses and underbrush starting to recover, it will be better for the ground.
I think someone can do a good job, fix the problem, and line up a couple of months worth of work with a project like this. Personally, if it was close to me, I'd look hard at it and break it up into smaller projects so my regular customers wouldn't get too anxious waiting for me to complete a big project.
Marshall 12" Tree Saw Model 1200 Quick Attach for Front of Skid Steer New | eBay
OP
RDrancher
Veteran Member
Your comments in "bold" above are exactly what I'm thinking. Coincidentally, I was looking earlier today at the exact link that you provided. I also checked out the Turbo Saw and others like it, but I think that a high-speed saw would have more chance of getting damaged with all of the rock. I also read of problems with the bolt-on teeth.
Do you have any comments or suggestions regarding the value of the logs or their usefulness for firewood? I'm really wondering about that.
John,
Maybe since I mostly use a grubber for land clearing I jumped to the conclusion that the roots had to come out. Apparently that is not the case.
The Marshall saw looks pretty awesome. Have you considered using a tree shear? A few years ago I used a large shear on my skid that had a claw on top. The shear was a rental. The beauty of having the claw is that I was able to cut large trees (40' or so) and carry them to the pile with the shear. The shear was fast. I was cutting live mesquite and elm up to 20" in diameter. I was getting the stumps down to 1" or so of grade. If the customer later wanted to plant the area you could use a stump grinder to take them below grade.
I too am curious if the logs have any value. Ya know, as long as the logs are not shedding black they should be fine for firewood. They would not bring premium prices, but they ought to bring something. After a couple of years of standing in the weather, most of the soot should be washed off.
Tim
Maybe since I mostly use a grubber for land clearing I jumped to the conclusion that the roots had to come out. Apparently that is not the case.
The Marshall saw looks pretty awesome. Have you considered using a tree shear? A few years ago I used a large shear on my skid that had a claw on top. The shear was a rental. The beauty of having the claw is that I was able to cut large trees (40' or so) and carry them to the pile with the shear. The shear was fast. I was cutting live mesquite and elm up to 20" in diameter. I was getting the stumps down to 1" or so of grade. If the customer later wanted to plant the area you could use a stump grinder to take them below grade.
I too am curious if the logs have any value. Ya know, as long as the logs are not shedding black they should be fine for firewood. They would not bring premium prices, but they ought to bring something. After a couple of years of standing in the weather, most of the soot should be washed off.
Tim
yellowdogsvc
Platinum Member
I think a tree shear would have problems if the oak is hard and dry. The saw will, too, but less chance of damaging something (ask me how I know.. LOL). While I love the Tree Terminator and the service from the manufacturer is awesome, I learned my lesson trying to cut hard, dry oak. It cuts part way and POP it'll jump off the holding wood and hard to control fall plus it can damage/twist blades. The slow speed of the say will pinch and cut while letting the tree fall to one side using what's left of hinge wood to help the fall.. (in theory) plus the saw sticks out a lot further than a shear and less chance of needing your ROPS to protect you from falling wood (i'd still have lexan working in and under dead wood).
As far as value of logs.. a fairly successful tree contractor told me that there is money in firewood if you don't have to handle it too much. Having firewood choppers, at least down here, is a mixed bag. You can get someone responsible but I really doubt they would have insurance or follow any safety rules. To me, that's more of a liability unless the trees were on the ground, the guys were supervised, etc. Better, in my humble opinion, to pay more for a quality cutter or two or three who will wear chaps and buck the wood when it's on a the ground. Of course, in TX chaps are pretty much only worn by the cowboys at the rodeo. LOL.
Seriously, a little planning and this is a really cool job. You get to make something go away that's a
hurting the property value, b will only become bigger problem (when tree start to deteriorate, cutting is 100% more dangerous and gets more expensive/messy), and cyou will actually improve and make the property pretty again.
There will be some money in firewood logs.. possibly. Whether it's splitting on site in measured cords, stacking on pallets and wrapping (it's already dry and ready to burn next season), hauling the roundest/cut to equal lengths logs to a firewood processor and expecting to sell at deep discount, or finding a reputable cutter that will take the wood for free but cut down on your disposal.
You get enough gone/sold and it's starting to look more afforable to bring in the bigger mulcher, good skid steer mulcher operator for tops/stumps, or a tub or horizontal to take care of what's left.
The mulch can be used for remediation or sold at wholesale or deep discounts if a material yard is willing to send big dumps or live floor trailers to get the mulch.
I'm sorry for their loss.. Had to be a horribly frightening fire. I was a wildland firefighter in another life and I've been there when mother nature does her worst and leaves a big mess but from what I read about Possum Kingdom, that's one of the bad ones.
As far as value of logs.. a fairly successful tree contractor told me that there is money in firewood if you don't have to handle it too much. Having firewood choppers, at least down here, is a mixed bag. You can get someone responsible but I really doubt they would have insurance or follow any safety rules. To me, that's more of a liability unless the trees were on the ground, the guys were supervised, etc. Better, in my humble opinion, to pay more for a quality cutter or two or three who will wear chaps and buck the wood when it's on a the ground. Of course, in TX chaps are pretty much only worn by the cowboys at the rodeo. LOL.
Seriously, a little planning and this is a really cool job. You get to make something go away that's a
hurting the property value, b will only become bigger problem (when tree start to deteriorate, cutting is 100% more dangerous and gets more expensive/messy), and cyou will actually improve and make the property pretty again. There will be some money in firewood logs.. possibly. Whether it's splitting on site in measured cords, stacking on pallets and wrapping (it's already dry and ready to burn next season), hauling the roundest/cut to equal lengths logs to a firewood processor and expecting to sell at deep discount, or finding a reputable cutter that will take the wood for free but cut down on your disposal.
You get enough gone/sold and it's starting to look more afforable to bring in the bigger mulcher, good skid steer mulcher operator for tops/stumps, or a tub or horizontal to take care of what's left.
The mulch can be used for remediation or sold at wholesale or deep discounts if a material yard is willing to send big dumps or live floor trailers to get the mulch.
I'm sorry for their loss.. Had to be a horribly frightening fire. I was a wildland firefighter in another life and I've been there when mother nature does her worst and leaves a big mess but from what I read about Possum Kingdom, that's one of the bad ones.
OP
RDrancher
Veteran Member
I think a tree shear would have problems if the oak is hard and dry. The saw will, too, but less chance of damaging something (ask me how I know.. LOL). While I love the Tree Terminator and the service from the manufacturer is awesome, I learned my lesson trying to cut hard, dry oak. It cuts part way and POP it'll jump off the holding wood and hard to control fall plus it can damage/twist blades. The slow speed of the say will pinch and cut while letting the tree fall to one side using what's left of hinge wood to help the fall.. (in theory) plus the saw sticks out a lot further than a shear and less chance of needing your ROPS to protect you from falling wood (i'd still have lexan working in and under dead wood).
As far as value of logs.. a fairly successful tree contractor told me that there is money in firewood if you don't have to handle it too much. Having firewood choppers, at least down here, is a mixed bag. You can get someone responsible but I really doubt they would have insurance or follow any safety rules. To me, that's more of a liability unless the trees were on the ground, the guys were supervised, etc. Better, in my humble opinion, to pay more for a quality cutter or two or three who will wear chaps and buck the wood when it's on a the ground. Of course, in TX chaps are pretty much only worn by the cowboys at the rodeo. LOL.
Seriously, a little planning and this is a really cool job. You get to make something go away that's a
There will be some money in firewood logs.. possibly. Whether it's splitting on site in measured cords, stacking on pallets and wrapping (it's already dry and ready to burn next season), hauling the roundest/cut to equal lengths logs to a firewood processor and expecting to sell at deep discount, or finding a reputable cutter that will take the wood for free but cut down on your disposal.
You get enough gone/sold and it's starting to look more afforable to bring in the bigger mulcher, good skid steer mulcher operator for tops/stumps, or a tub or horizontal to take care of what's left.
The mulch can be used for remediation or sold at wholesale or deep discounts if a material yard is willing to send big dumps or live floor trailers to get the mulch.
I'm sorry for their loss.. Had to be a horribly frightening fire. I was a wildland firefighter in another life and I've been there when mother nature does her worst and leaves a big mess but from what I read about Possum Kingdom, that's one of the bad ones.
With enough planning and the help I'm getting here, I'm thinking that this would be a pretty cool job. The customer is a really nice guy...and you know how often they get just plain screwed. I want to be the one that puts a stop to it and hand him a nice looking property. I hear you on the devastation that folks suffer after a fire. I was a helitack firefighter in SoCal in my younger days as well.
Tim, I appreciate the input. All ideas are a path to a successful outcome!
redprospector
Silver Member
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When I bid jobs like this, I do not count the wood as being worth anything...because usually it isn't. If I am able to sell some firewood I count it as a "value added" product. Next month I will be going back to a burned project I started last fall. There are a lot of surprises between the initial inspection and the final product when cleaning up a burn. Look it over real good, cover all of your bases. Cleaning up a burn is nothing like fighting the fire.
You don't want to be the one that screw's someone that's already been devastated by fire, but you really don't want to cut yourself short, and be added to the list of casualty's of a fire. Don't bid low trying to save someone money at the cost of your own livelihood.
They say that a word to the wise is sufficient, so I'll leave it at that and say good luck with it.
You don't want to be the one that screw's someone that's already been devastated by fire, but you really don't want to cut yourself short, and be added to the list of casualty's of a fire. Don't bid low trying to save someone money at the cost of your own livelihood.
They say that a word to the wise is sufficient, so I'll leave it at that and say good luck with it.
OP
RDrancher
Veteran Member
Thanks Red, I appreciate it! I'm figuring that the excess wood is actually a PITA. If it's worth anything...then so be it.