Train - hazardous cargo "accident"

[Cub 7274]

Sadly it the Shareholder who drives the Railroad now not the Customer
To many torn up tracks,mothballed engines,crew reductions,maintenance of way cuts,car shop closures etc for the RR to be a viable means of transportation for anything that doesn't make them maximum dollar-there is no money in hauling grain for them they are low priority.
Oil trains, and Stack Container trains is where the money is they don't stop anywhere no switching etc one end of the country to the other big$$$$

 

[sparc]

perhaps effectively what I called in another world "tribal knowledge". I don't actually mean that in a negative sense - over time I've found that some scarily important stuff is not written down anywhere, but rather passed along as oral history !

you wouldn't be thinking of the electric generation business would you?

 

[3930dave]

you wouldn't be thinking of the electric generation business would you?

My Dad told me a few stories of that area of technology.... but, he's been gone a long time now..... (Apparently, if you've ever been in a powerhouse when a large generator is brought on-line out of phase, you'll clearly remember it !).

The more things change, the more they stay the same.....

I'm a checklist kind of guy, about most things that matter. Some people get a kick out of that (my behaviour), but that's OK, I get that in the big picture, many people won't pay attention to the details, even with a gun to their head.

There are important reasons that dictate that even a pilot who has been flying for 30 years should still use a Take-Off Checklist....

I remember a story I heard quite a while ago, it was about a car company, Saturn I think. Old Fred (as good a name as any) had been running the Materials group longer than anybody could remember (started with GM, as a basic hourly worker way back)..... finally retired after many years, gold watch, off into the Sunset, happily ever after....

Early the next winter, big problems (factory shutdowns) happen, as the transport trucks are rolling up with un-useable paint at cold climate plants. Turns out Fred alone had been quarterbacking whatever Winter measures ("antifreeze" in paint, reefer trucks.... ?) were needed to deal with water based paint at that time of the year.... Not Written Down Anywhere....

Even (or maybe especially ?) today, I think a lot of key things in most industries operate based on Tribal Knowledge....

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Ok.... does anybody except Homer Simpson believe that the same industry that can exactly identify oil deposits and extract them from miles under the ocean can't figure out what is sitting in a rail car ?

Flawed tests play down crude oil

As Canada and the United States move to strengthen the rules for transporting crude oil by rail, there is mounting evidence that regulators are relying on tests that underestimate the risk of a fiery explosion like the one that destroyed Lac-M馮antic.

The current testing regime was not designed for unrefined crude and, as a result, can play down the dangers of shipping some light crude oils, according to industry and transportation experts. A United Nations panel on hazardous materials shared similar concerns last week when it announced that it would review international standards for shipping crude oil, including how crude is tested and classified, in response to a string of recent accidents in North America.

With the accuracy of the tests in question, there is suspicion that some shipments of Bakken crude may be more volatile than officials believed. It also raises the possibility that light crude oil drawn from other locations in North America is as potentially explosive as crude from the Bakken but has not been receiving the same level of scrutiny.

The devastating fire in Lac-M鬥ｮantic, Que. last July, began when a train carrying Bakken crude jumped the tracks and exploded in the centre of the small town, killing 47 people. A Globe and Mail investigation showed that oil from the Bakken formation, which straddles North Dakota, Saskatchewan and Manitoba, is more volatile and prone to exploding than conventional forms of crude.

Crude oil with a high concentration of light ends such as methane and propane is ?壼ｾ冱t at risk of being mischaracterized in standard testing procedures, according to a recent report commissioned by Transport Canada. Those light ends are potentially dangerous because they can ignite and magnify the size of an explosion.

The inaccuracies underscore how little is known about the risks of shipping crude oil by rail, a practice that has increased dramatically during the past five years and now accounts for an estimated 230,000 barrels of oil a day in Canada. Oil is widely known to be flammable, but regulators did not believe until recently that it had the potential to explode and cause the kind of destruction it did in Lac-M鬯･?ｮantic.

Flash point and boiling point tests, which are required for crude shipments in Canada and the U.S., both have difficulty measuring samples that contain significant concentrations of light ends, according to the report to Transport Canada. Another common test, known as the Reid Vapour Pressure test, has also been criticized for use on crude oil because it can allow light ends to easily vapourize at the time samples are collected from highly volatile crude.

"When you try to apply [current tests] to samples that have light ends, they don't work as well," said Bob Falkiner, a director for the Canadian Crude Quality Technical Association who also works for Imperial Oil. "You get biased results reported from those test methods because of the lost light ends."

A spokesperson for Transport Minister Lisa Raitt said the minister is aware of concerns about the crude-testing regime and Transport Canada is "looking at options" related to volatility tests. Speaking with The Globe after an event in Toronto last week, Ms. Raitt also welcomed the UN panel's decision to study crude shipments and testing.

Producers in the Bakken are expected to stabilize crude oil before shipping it, in a process meant to remove many of the light ends from the rest of the product. Those light ends can be sold separately, but limited transportation infrastructure in the fast-growing Bakken area has led some producers to flare the products instead which means they simply burn them on the spot. In some cases, flaring has become a "de facto stabilization process," said Bill Lywood, founder and president of Crude Quality Inc.

However, several industry experts said there is a financial incentive for producers to leave some light ends in the crude rather than burning them off or selling them separately because they can increase the overall volume of the crude they are selling. At the same time, because of testing limitations, it can be difficult for producers, shippers and buyers to determine whether enough of the volatile light ends have been stripped away before crude oil is transported across the country.

In an effort to address the problem, some companies and industry experts are advocating the use of a newer vapour pressure test that uses a sealed, pressurized cylinder to prevent light ends from escaping when a sample is taken.

Also good to know.... at the same time that guys like ultrarunner can't burn even a few Yule logs at home according to the EPA, apparently oil co's can still flare-off whatever they want :thumbsup: !

Rgds, D.

 

[joshuabardwell]

Not Written Down Anywhere....

I had a similar situation. In order to do any work involving RF/wireles at the site, your equipment had to be cross-checked against the master frequency list, to make sure it wouldn't interfere with any existing systems. The master frequency list was maintained by Old Fred, and ever since he retired last summer, nobody can find it. And, for whatever reason, "just go ask Fred for it," didn't seem to be an option. As a result, an expensive RF survey needed to be performed, to document all frequencies currently in use at the site, and reconstruct the master frequency list. But since nobody was willing to pay for this to be done, all work involving RF/wireless at the site was de facto prohibited.

 

[3930dave]

I had a similar situation. In order to do any work involving RF/wireles at the site, your equipment had to be cross-checked against the master frequency list, to make sure it wouldn't interfere with any existing systems. The master frequency list was maintained by Old Fred, and ever since he retired last summer, nobody can find it. And, for whatever reason, "just go ask Fred for it," didn't seem to be an option. As a result, an expensive RF survey needed to be performed, to document all frequencies currently in use at the site, and reconstruct the master frequency list. But since nobody was willing to pay for this to be done, all work involving RF/wireless at the site was de facto prohibited.

Absolutely Classic !

Not that he's running out of material.... but you should send that one to Scott Adams !

Dilbert Approved !

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

So.... how much you want to bet that all future spills are less than 200 litres ?

Ottawa lifts requirement that railways report small spills - The Globe and Mail

The beginning of the article:

The federal transport safety agency is scrapping a requirement for railways to report on smaller spills involving hazardous materials, raising questions about the quality of the accident data Ottawa collects......

So.... with an industry that has clearly demonstrated that it is not capable of correctly categorizing even what it's hauling, we are now supposed to believe that they are going to be accurately reporting on a 200 litre hazardous material limit ?

Every time I think CorporateGovernment arrogance can't be one-upped.......

Wow.

The USA regs still seem to be tight, in terms of spill reporting - as in all hazardous spills are required to be reported, south of the border.

Rgds, D.

 

[dave1949]

Probe finds Maine railway failed to reveal 22 incidents before deadly Quebec derailment | The Portland Press Herald / Maine Sunday Telegram

 

[3930dave]

Probe finds Maine railway failed to reveal 22 incidents before deadly Quebec derailment | The Portland Press Herald / Maine Sunday Telegram

The behaviour appears to be common, and only a politician can stand in front of cameras with a straight face and say that "accidents" by these fly-by-night ShortLine operators were "unexpected".

To say that the railways had, and continue to have, a free pass is understatement. Having minimal rules in place, with virtually no enforcement is bad enough. When I see weak existing regulations diminished even further.... can't say I'm impressed with the direction this is heading.....

Rgds, D.

 

[dave1949]

The behaviour appears to be common, and only a politician can stand in front of cameras with a straight face and say that "accidents" by these fly-by-night ShortLine operators were "unexpected".

To say that the railways had, and continue to have, a free pass is understatement. Having minimal rules in place, with virtually no enforcement is bad enough. When I see weak existing regulations diminished even further.... can't say I'm impressed with the direction this is heading.....

Rgds, D.

Yeah, one would think multiple runaways and derailments would inspire some sort of report at least, let alone actions. Of course the RR is/was a fly-by-night thing, but I wonder if the lack of reports was "encouraged" in some way, or just sleeping regulators, nobody assigned to that task, or whatever?