So much for a Nissan Leaf!

[houstonscott]

My favorite car to rent in Europe is Skoda Octavia diesel. Don't know the mileage but we usually drive about two weeks on single tank. l was in ****** in 2012 and noticed that most of the taxis were Skoda Octavia diesels. So I asked the taxi driver why is Skoda so popular. It is cheap or what? He said it was about as expensive as VW Passat (both cars are structurally almost identical). But he added that it is only car they know of that can go 700 000 km (440 000 miles) with only basic maintenance.

Remove government regulations and all diesel cars might do that now. HS

 

[3930dave]

Loren,
It is not safety that keeps them out of the USA. It is the way the how the exhaust cleanliness (or pollution) is measured and used. In EU they measure pollution per km driven but in the USA it is measured as percentage of undesirable components in the exhaust. EU system penalizes large engines while it benefits small engines. US is the other way around. In example small engine has dirtier exhaust but it pollutes less than large engine per km driven because it burns smaller amount of fuel. You can blame the US automobile manufacturer lobby for it. Every US manufacturer produces diesel engines for cars sold outside USA but they can稚 import them because they are not clean enough by US standards.

You mean..... it's not about the evironment ? :shocked:



If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck. Protectionism.

Not too many sectors lobby better than Oil/Auto here. Whether it is just profit driven, and/or due to EPA hassles, the oil industry seems to prefer selling gas here. Since many of those same companies sell plenty of diesel into other markets, I suspect this situation is mostly due to govt regs, in one form or another.

Rgds, D.

 

[buickanddeere]

You mean..... it's not about the evironment ? :shocked:



If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck. Protectionism.

Not too many sectors lobby better than Oil/Auto here. Whether it is just profit driven, and/or due to EPA hassles, the oil industry seems to prefer selling gas here. Since many of those some companies sell plenty of diesel into other markets, I suspect this situation is mostly due to govt regs, in one form or another.

Rgds, D.

Gassers are cheaper to build, cheaper to service and easier to meet EPA tailpipe emission specs. The gasser is also lighter in weight. Gasoline is also cheaper than diesel in North America . Hence the low number of light diesels in the road .
Diesels rule in countries where diesel is cheaper than gasoline , less stringent emissions and where there is less cold weather . Reduced starting and fuel gelling problems.

There were a couple of urban liberal PC type persons in the EPA that had a hate on for good old boys.Driving jacked up diesel pickup with black smoke pouring out the stack. So they tried to regulate the diesel pickup off the market.

 

[3930dave]

As much as I consider myself a gearhead, today I equate Rolling Coal on the street with Delivering Ammunition to the Enemy...... in 2014 it's behavior best left to the track, or other private events.

Modern diesels typically handle cold starts well, but I'll give you that gasoline is a no-brainer fuel for consumers to use. Many don't want to hear about the tiny bit of work involved with maintaining diesel fuel in cold weather.

As the DI gas fleet rolls up more miles, I'm suspecting that consumers may find that DI gas engines aren't quite as much no-maintenance as MPFI.... but I'd truly like to be consistently proven wrong there.

I view the diesel/gas price split as heavily influenced by the govt, and more so in the USA than Canada. I say that based on my trips to the USA over the last few years, prices posted by TBN'ers, and guys I know here that run personal trailers back and forth to Florida.

In that time period, the Canadian Diesel/Gas price split did float up and down.... sometimes diesel is cheaper here, sometimes it isn't. With my redneck view of economics, that tells me there is some significant impact of supply/demand market forces at play, in the Canadian market.

When Diesel fuel constantly remains above Gas in the USA for the same duration, that tells this redneck there is something else going on.

I (try and) pay attention to the Man Behind the Curtain on this show.... as most vehicles we can get here are determined in Washington, not Ottawa.

Rgds, D.

 

[Pilot]

T. Boone Pickens has been pushing for natural gas for several years now. Yes, it's self serving as he will make $$ millions (maybe $$ billions), but he also makes sense. It's about $1 per gallon cheaper than gasoline, burns cleaner and the US has huge amounts in the ground. He has persuaded Waste Management and a couple other large fleet operations to convert to NG and 80% of the WM trucks now operate on NG.

Just like with hydrogen for fuel cells (Toyota has one ready), widespread acceptance will depend on the refueling infrastructure.

Interesting times are coming! Will it be EV's? Natural gas? Diesel? Fuel cells? We'll know more in a few years.

 

[3930dave]

T. Boone Pickens has been pushing for natural gas for several years now. Yes, it's self serving as he will make $$ millions (maybe $$ billions), but he also makes sense. It's about $1 per gallon cheaper than gasoline, burns cleaner and the US has huge amounts in the ground. He has persuaded Waste Management and a couple other large fleet operations to convert to NG and 80% of the WM trucks now operate on NG.

Just like with hydrogen for fuel cells (Toyota has one ready), widespread acceptance will depend on the refueling infrastructure.

Interesting times are coming! Will it be EV's? Natural gas? Diesel? Fuel cells? We'll know more in a few years.

Our energy wants are high enough, that we need a mix of solutions, IMO. Natgas is a good fit for most of Canada/USA, we have lots of it, and it is the cleanest burning hydrocarbon there is.

I've read about a Quebec company (can't remember the name) that is doing a good job of a build-out of alternative fuel stations along the 401 corridor in Ontario, and into Quebec. As this is the primary transit corridor for this part of Eastern Canada, that removes one more barrier to ownership of an Alt Fuel vehicle.

Tank size on Natgas tends to favour use on a larger vehicle. I have a buddy who has an F150 with the factory dual fuel system - performance is good on Natgas, and gives him a break from the extortionist gasoline pricing in Vancouver.

Modern systems have gotten better (I've posted on here about the work of Roush, with Ford on propane), but cold weather can be trouble, at least on the older systems.

Around here the new WM natgas garbage trucks that sat over the Xmas break had trouble getting started, with the cold snap we had. I view it as teething problems, that will get sorted out.

Rgds, D.

 

[ultrarunner]

One of my pet peeves is that US standards do not allow some of the European (or other area) vehicles in because of safety concerns. I guess I can live with some of the emissions standards and am not sure of breakdown between the two. If it is for safety then how do we allow motorcycles, dirt bikes, scooters and 3 wheel cycles but not other very small cars. Makes no sense to me.

Loren

In California... the problem with Diesel passenger cars has been California emission standards could not be met...

It was the same in the early-mid 70's when California was the only jurisdiction in the world to require unleaded fuel for Catalytic converters.

 

[IXLR8]

I doubt that we will see wide spread support for EVs from our government. The taxes on gasoline and diesel provide billions of dollars for our legislators to spend. If all of a sudden there were no more consumers buying fuel, that source of tax revenue would be gone. What would they do then? Raise taxes on electricity?

The hybrids and other hi mileage cars are already cutting into fuel tax revenues. So much so, some states are looking to replace the fuel tax with a "miles driven" tax. Using something like an Ez-pass transponder sort of system or a GPS tracking system.

 

[k0ua]

T. Boone Pickens has been pushing for natural gas for several years now. Yes, it's self serving as he will make $$ millions (maybe $$ billions), but he also makes sense. It's about $1 per gallon cheaper than gasoline, burns cleaner and the US has huge amounts in the ground. He has persuaded Waste Management and a couple other large fleet operations to convert to NG and 80% of the WM trucks now operate on NG.

Just like with hydrogen for fuel cells (Toyota has one ready), widespread acceptance will depend on the refueling infrastructure.

Interesting times are coming! Will it be EV's? Natural gas? Diesel? Fuel cells? We'll know more in a few years.

Yeah, and we actually have Natural gas, as it is an actual fuel. Not so hydrogen, we have 0 hydrogen, All hydrogen has to be made either by chemical means or making it using electricity by breaking the bond with oxygen from water. And that takes lots of energy.

 

[Blade Breaker]

The hybrids and other hi mileage cars are already cutting into fuel tax revenues. So much so, some states are looking to replace the fuel tax with a "miles driven" tax. Using something like an Ez-pass transponder sort of system or a GPS tracking system.

Yea dont like that idea. Government does not need to know where you are. Of course the president says "if you cant trust the government who can you trust". Right.....