Welding 3/16" & 1/4" with 120v wire-feed

   / Welding 3/16" & 1/4" with 120v wire-feed
  • Thread Starter
#71  
It doesn't really sum it up though.

Brian, by little 120v wire-feed do you mean a $195 welder running flux core? Or a $5-600 Miller 140, Hobart 140 etc with gas?

Maybe the guys with 120v Millers & Hobarts repaired their own stuff successfully, and it's out there working thus did not come into your shop?

I've never even tried a $195 welder, but I can tell you without a doubt that someone who makes bird crap with a good 120v can also make bird crap with a 220v and even moreso with a stick. But read back thru this thread, all the newbies think 220v (MIG or Stick) is the way to go, without regard to metal thickness, and since they don't do projects they don't have any thicknesses in mind. These are newbies with 220v. 220v is a significant burden to many who are interested in learning to weld and becomes a stopper for many people.

I just think the forum members deserve more candid truth, and more help too.
 
   / Welding 3/16" & 1/4" with 120v wire-feed #72  
Weldermike, those are nice welds. You are an artist. However I'm not convinced you know about actual weld strength, or structure though, and what welds will bust (like a farmer would for example). Do you build stuff for yourself? Projects & repairs etc?



Is it possible that definition of "non thread" is a welding thread that "the Arcs" are not able to control?

Anyway I highly doubt that the generating setup you could envision, would be as quiet and easy to use for other stuff as having a pair of Hondas around. And you don't do "projects", you'd have to check with someone who does (to offer real advice). I will admit that the Miller salesman 'got me' but that's his job and he did it well but I'm still happy with the welder because it will do stick too (and TIG with more $$) and it's easy to throw it in the truck.



This is because a groove weld on 3/8" test plate will pass the bend test. Thank you for admitting it, I know it was difficult.:D

You could have written: (as a welding expert on a hobby/maintenance welding forum) "If you encounter occasional 3/8" thick welding tasks, a 120v MIG can do the job by compensating with a groove, or multi-pass whereas with a larger machine, this may not be necessary.




I would change that a little to say, if you already have a larger MIG, don't bother buying a 120v MIG. Also note that "duty cycles" is only for pro welding. Nobody would setup a pro, and have a fitter preparing welds for a pro with a 120v welder. Duty cycle is irrelevant.

If you already have a stick welder, a 120v MIG can become your favorite tool for any repair or project 1/4" and less. If you buy a 120/240v MIG, such as a miller211, you might never use that stick welder again.

I certainly don't do projects like you do.;) On your hitch deal, it's obvious you were in a hurry and didn't pay much attention to detail. Why would you completely weld the top pieces of the channel on where it bolts at the top? That's just extra work. I would have cut notches in the flanges and then bent the web to the right angle. Then I'd just weld up the the closed notches and grind it flush. Would look a lot better and more professional but I guess if you're just a hobby welder it's OK if it looks like it was slapped together in a hurry.:confused3:

Generally when newbies are looking at 120 volt welders it's because it is a lower cost introduction to welding. The money you have tied up in your set up could have purchased a top of the line CC/CV welder or separate MIG and stick/TIG machines. Just the cost of the MM200 could have bought 2 separate machines. Maybe if you would have asked first and bought later us "pro's" could have given you some less expensive options?

The reason I don't think a groove weld on flat plate is the definitive test for a 120 volt welder (or any weld for that matter) is because you can see if you have full penetration very easily and by design it's made so you can get full penetration very easily. The plate is also preheated after the root pass and stays hot. With a fillet weld you can't tell how much penetration you're getting or if it's enough and you don't get the preheat factor to help with fusion and penetration.

I fail to see why you keep referring to this forum as a hobby/maintenance forum?:confused: Anybody with any amount of pride in their work will try to do the best job they can. Usually that means trying to make it look as professional as possible. To say farmers and hobbyist's shouldn't or don't need to take pride in their work is an insult to them. :ashamed::ashamed: Perhaps you've exceeded your duty cycle and should let the farmers, hobbyists, maintenance welders and other posters decide who's advice they want to take? After all they're the ones asking for it.:anyone:
 
   / Welding 3/16" & 1/4" with 120v wire-feed #73  
Exhausting man! Soto....what is your beef bro, give it a rest.
 
   / Welding 3/16" & 1/4" with 120v wire-feed #74  
WOW! You convinced me;). I seen your pictures earlier, so I ran out to Wal-Mart thank God they are open 24-hours:cool:, and bought myself a 120-volt Mig machine. Headed out to the shop now to play with it, will report back later with the results.:laughing:

Shield Arc is a pro and worth listening to. I do know that a 120 machine is much easier to weld with and make it look good. It kind of lays on weld like body filler. I only own 220 machine myself. In welding certification years ago instructor said check 120 machines in shop they will all be set on highest heat settings. Every time I have used one I wished for more penetration.
 
   / Welding 3/16" & 1/4" with 120v wire-feed #75  
Exhausting man! Soto....what is your beef bro, give it a rest.

Oh, well. Some people are hard to please. :confused3:

BTW, great looking welds Mike. Shows you're a true PRO. :cool:
 
   / Welding 3/16" & 1/4" with 120v wire-feed #76  
Oh, well. Some people are hard to please. :confused3:

BTW, great looking welds Mike. Shows you're a true PRO. :cool:
Thank you bud!
 
   / Welding 3/16" & 1/4" with 120v wire-feed
  • Thread Starter
#77  
On your hitch deal, it's obvious you were in a hurry and didn't pay much attention to detail. Why would you completely weld the top pieces of the channel on where it bolts at the top? That's just extra work. I would have cut notches in the flanges and then bent the web to the right angle. Then I'd just weld up the the closed notches and grind it flush. Would look a lot better and more professional but I guess if you're just a hobby welder it's OK if it looks like it was slapped together in a hurry.:confused3:

That's what I did. I cut notches and bent it. The line on the bend is where the saw made a scratch across the web. On one side it was deeper than I wanted so I welded it. In a hurry as you said, didn't grind it, was happy to find paint in the can on the shelf. It's all good and I use it all the time. My neighbor liked it so I built him a refined version.

Generally when newbies are looking at 120 volt welders it's because it is a lower cost introduction to welding. The money you have tied up in your set up could have purchased a top of the line CC/CV welder or separate MIG and stick/TIG machines. Just the cost of the MM200 could have bought 2 separate machines. Maybe if you would have asked first and bought later us "pro's" could have given you some less expensive options?

I have two shops plus a garage = 3 locations that I work in, and one is off-grid - that's my desire for portability, and all-in-one. And I like that its MIG/TIG/STICK but have only used the MIG. I already had the pair of Hondas, I didn't want to buy another generator. I'm not convinced that asking on this forum would have helped, but I hope it becomes more helpful. I don't know why this is relevant, and don't recall recommending this specialty machine to anyone.

The reason I don't think a groove weld on flat plate is the definitive test for a 120 volt welder (or any weld for that matter) is because you can see if you have full penetration very easily and by design it's made so you can get full penetration very easily. The plate is also preheated after the root pass and stays hot. With a fillet weld you can't tell how much penetration you're getting or if it's enough and you don't get the preheat factor to help with fusion and penetration.

I thank you for explaining, authoritatively, you are helping to make my point. One way to get the most from a 120v MIG, is to use methods more suited to the lower power, to get your strength with "tricks" such as a groove. People who want 120v MIGs are not pros who must follow a specific regiment. They often have the discretion to do it however works. So why tell people it can't be done, (knowing full well how it CAN be done)? Tell them how to do it, as you just did above. That's my problem with the way this forum is being "handled".

I fail to see why you keep referring to this forum as a hobby/maintenance forum?:confused: Anybody with any amount of pride in their work will try to do the best job they can. Usually that means trying to make it look as professional as possible. To say farmers and hobbyist's shouldn't or don't need to take pride in their work is an insult to them. :ashamed::ashamed: Perhaps you've exceeded your duty cycle and should let the farmers, hobbyists, maintenance welders and other posters decide who's advice they want to take? After all they're the ones asking for it.:anyone:

Well that's an interesting point of view. I posted pics of welds that I am perfectly happy with, I think they look fine, I can tell with one simple glance that they aren't going to break. I knew it while I was welding it too. And you said they are ugly, Shield said it had problems (though he would never say it was insufficient). I like seeing pretty welds as much as anybody, but I don't sit there and gaze at welds, sometimes I'm ready to use it while it's still HOT.

I have not berated anybodys welds, and to the contrary I tell folks go at it, learn by doing, get started with 120v if you want, because 120v MIGs WORK (I only have experience with Miller, Hobart). Again, I can't say anything about a $195 wire-feed.

You say that if a weld can't be done to a high standard, don't do it at all. I think your message is the insulting one. I fix stuff and I make stuff and I have fun doing it, and disagree it looks crappy. It looks FINE! Hobby/maintenance can build stuff to pro level too, it doesn't make them pros.

If a guy could post a 120v weld on this forum, (with a 120v MIG) and get genuine HELP to improve his weld, with the machine he has, and not get pigpiled and berated for his eqpt, then I think my work was done.

Shield Arc is a pro and worth listening to. I do know that a 120 machine is much easier to weld with and make it look good. It kind of lays on weld like body filler. I only own 220 machine myself. In welding certification years ago instructor said check 120 machines in shop they will all be set on highest heat settings. Every time I have used one I wished for more penetration.

I bet in school they said to set the machine to an appropriate heat range for the material thickness. For a Miller or Hobart, with 3/16" it should be near the max, and for 1/4" of course it should be maxed. For 1/16 and 1/8" you would not put it on max. If the machine is on max it's because the last person welded 3/16+ or because he wasn't taught to set the machine for the material to be welded. (Again Miller/Hobart etc)
 
   / Welding 3/16" & 1/4" with 120v wire-feed #78  
"You say that if a weld can't be done to a high standard, don't do it at all. I think your message is the insulting one. I fix stuff and I make stuff and I have fun doing it, and disagree it looks crappy. It looks FINE! Hobby/maintenance can build stuff to pro level too, it doesn't make them pros."

Now you're putting words in my mouth and I DO take exception to that.:irked: I didn't say anything in your so called above quote. I said anyone who takes pride in their work will try to make it look as professional as possible. You don't have to be a licensed "pro" carpenter to build a garage or shed but most people would still want to build it the same way a pro would instead of just slapping it together. You don't have to be a pro mechanic to work on your own equipment but you still want to fix it the same way a pro would. What makes you think welding is any different?

I guess I was brought up different from you. My dad always instilled in me that if you're going to do something, do it the best you can. I'm guessing you missed this lesson as your credo seems to be that mediocre will do. If you have trouble cutting little notches in the flanges on channel without cutting into the web, I can see where your good enough attitude comes from. Nobody in their right mind wants to spend half an hour grinding for 2 minutes of welding because their welder is too small. There's a lot of farmers and hobby welders on this forum and you're giving them a bad rep. with your good enough for a farmer/hobby welder approach. I know a few farmers that are excellent craftsman and do take pride in their work. The difference between a pro and a hobbyist isn't because the pro makes his living at it. The true professional strives to be a craftsman and do the best work he can. There is no reason why the hobbyist can't strive for the same thing. :thumbsup:
 
   / Welding 3/16" & 1/4" with 120v wire-feed
  • Thread Starter
#79  
As far as Sodo's proficiency at welding, It begs the question... What exactly have you been doing for 40 years?:confused3::eek: It certainly wasn't trying to improve your welding skills. You would have been much better off not showing your welds than posting pictures of welds that would fail a high school welding test. Seriously!:ashamed:

OK sorry I should have used the quotes.

My welds are fine, projects are fine, strength is fine, finish quality is fine.
Sometimes I could have done it better, but that ATV hitch is not worth a re-do. I love that Grizzly660 but I never gaze at it. Use the receiver hitch all the time it's been a GREAT unit.

Often I have other projects, (sometimes too many) but I enjoy projects. I don't gaze at welds when I'm in project mode. I can see you have a different focus, it's fine you can be that way, it takes all kinds.

There's a lot of farmers and hobby welders on this forum and you're giving them a bad rep. with your good enough for a farmer/hobby welder approach.

Sorry I don't follow you on that one.
 
   / Welding 3/16" & 1/4" with 120v wire-feed #80  
weldermike, I am impressed, super looking welds! Sodo, let it go man, this thread is spiraling into the abyss.
 

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