EcoDiesel, A Maiden Voyage

   / EcoDiesel, A Maiden Voyage #181  
I've only driven a 3V Mod in an '10 F-250 where a 3V 5.4 sat in front of a 5R110 and 3.73s. Unloaded it felt a lot like the 4.6 2V but loaded it pulled a heck of a lot better. I haven't pulled anything very heavy yet with my 5.0/6R80 F-150 so I can't compare loaded performance, but unloaded or lightly loaded (<3000#) it runs circles around the Mod-engined pickups.

Are you sure the 2010 did not have the 6R80? I have hauled a few cars with the mine, 2013 Supercrew, 5.0,and 3.73s. It does really good. I hauled one car up a pretty long steep grade and the truck pulled the hill in 4 gear running 60MPH not even mashing on it. The only mod truck that would hang with a 5.0 would be a lightning and I think a reg cab short bed 2wd 5.0 would be faster.

Remove the silencer from your air box it makes the 5.0 sound nasty.
 
   / EcoDiesel, A Maiden Voyage #182  
Are you sure the 2010 did not have the 6R80?

The F250 never had the 6R80. It got the 6R120 (not sure on the last two numbers) in 2011 with the 6.7L and 6.2L.
 
   / EcoDiesel, A Maiden Voyage #183  
The F250 never had the 6R80. It got the 6R120 (not sure on the last two numbers) in 2011 with the 6.7L and 6.2L.

I misread it as f-150:banghead:

The 11 up Superduty has a 6R140;)
 
   / EcoDiesel, A Maiden Voyage #185  
Are you sure the 2010 did not have the 6R80? I have hauled a few cars with the mine, 2013 Supercrew, 5.0,and 3.73s. It does really good. I hauled one car up a pretty long steep grade and the truck pulled the hill in 4 gear running 60MPH not even mashing on it. The only mod truck that would hang with a 5.0 would be a lightning and I think a reg cab short bed 2wd 5.0 would be faster.

The Lightning is roughly as powerful as the 5.0 but I doubt it would pull as much due to its more street-oriented suspension and wheels/tires. My 5.0 extended cab short box truck is happy to run up moderate grades on the interstate at 80 mph while the other trucks needed to downshift at least a gear.

Remove the silencer from your air box it makes the 5.0 sound nasty.

Yeah, the stock intake/exhaust makes the 5.0 nearly inaudible. It's difficult to tell a 5.0 from a 3.7 or EcoBoost by sound alone. I look forward to the muffler "falling off" mine someday :D

I misread it as f-150:banghead:

The 11 up Superduty has a 6R140;)

The 3/4/1/1.5 ton units had the C6, then the E4OD/4R100, then the 5R110, and now the 6R140.
 
   / EcoDiesel, A Maiden Voyage #186  
Yeah, the stock intake/exhaust makes the 5.0 nearly inaudible. It's difficult to tell a 5.0 from a 3.7 or EcoBoost by sound alone. I look forward to the muffler "falling off" mine someday :D

I was thinking about doing a resonator delete but I watched some videos on youtube and it did not seem that loud. I think I am going to do a muffler delete and keep the resonator.
 
   / EcoDiesel, A Maiden Voyage #187  
Here is a segment showing the head of Ram and the head engineer answering questions in the new EcoDiesel. http://youtu.be/N_Qvf5pg2Tw
 
Last edited:
   / EcoDiesel, A Maiden Voyage #188  
I don't know if it's just me but I don't really see the point behind smaller (e.g. Class 5 and under) automotive diesels in the U.S. right now. Gasoline engines actually make a lot more sense as long as you can get over the constant "moar MPG" mantra and think about total cost of ownership and operation.

1. We whine and gripe about the emissions regulations in tractors but guess what, they're as bad or worse in on-road diesels. You have the soot trap that needs regenerated, when-it-clogs-you-blow-off-the-head (e.g. Navistar 6.oh-no) cooled EGR, and the pee-water catalyst. Vehicles that idle or are under low loads for a lot of time like many lighter trucks don't get to the right EGTs to burn off the soot in the soot trap so you get the forced regens that are complained about with tractors on this forum. In comparison, a gasser uses a simple passive 3-way catalyst that has been largely unchanged technology for over two decades, costs a few hundred bucks, and is a "you forget you have it" item. In fact, gas engines have actually lost a lot of the previously problematic emissions devices such as the heavily retarded timing, smog pumps, and in most modern engines, EGRs. You have a PCV, a vapor can, and generally a catalytic converter per manifold- that's it. No pee water, no regens, no soot trap that needs replaced. All you have to do is change the spark plugs and O2 sensors (a job that has about $50-100 in parts) about as often as you'd change a several thousand dollar soot trap in a diesel.

2. Diesels cost many thousands of dollars more than gasoline engines to purchase and also service. You can buy a LOT of gas for the price difference.

3. Diesel engines weigh a lot more than gasoline engines due to their need for an iron block, which negatively affects fuel mileage and handling.

4. Diesel fuel costs about what 91 octane premium gasoline goes for, and notably more than the 87 octane regular.

5. Gasoline engines make a lot more power for a similar torque output than a diesel so you get much better performance out of a similar transmission and driveline (which are limited by maximum torque, not maximum power.) The remarks about the 240 hp, 420 ft-lb Italian diesel in the Ram running out of steam on the highway aren't shared by the folks who drive say, a Ford 3.5 EcoBoost with an identical torque output and induction setup but with 125 more HP.

6. A gasoline engine with similar technology as a diesel engine (turbocharging, intercooling, direct injection) and burning fuel costing the same amount (91-93 octane premium) has the same large amount of low-end torque but in a somewhat smaller, much lighter, and FAR more powerful package. If we as a country got smart and re-standardized on an appropriate spark-ignition fuel such as 95-octane E30 instead of the 1970s gas-crisis-holdover 87 octane trash, the gassers would absolutely own everything smaller than Class 8 trucks. Compression ratio leads to efficiency and 95 octane in a DI gasser allows for a compression ratio or boost level not all that far off a modern diesel.

In short, unless it's a vehicle that runs at a constant speed most of the day for most of the days of the year such as a piece of heavy equipment or an over-the-road heavy truck, a gasser actually makes more sense.
 
   / EcoDiesel, A Maiden Voyage #189  
Well I disagree with a lot of your points. First off most of the failures are the crappy designed EPA mandated parts, not the engines themselves. The part, left alone can do engine damage, on some models.
The EPA sets standards with ZERO idea if those standards can ever be met, and it's one hellova job for the engineers to design a system that works AND will hold up.
Second, my daughter is one perfect candidate for a small truck/diesel combo. She lives in the city, but likes to bicycle and take the dog with her on walks and runs, so a truck is a big bonus. She, like me does not like getting dog hair in your face as you drive down the freeway, so the dog rides outside.

The Ecoboost does not compare mileage to even the Ram 1500. Ever hear of anyone getting 19 mpg towing 7000lbs with one? Didn't think so. Most just get 20 unloaded. Then to get 30 MPG when empty is icing on the cake.

Fuel costs? Uhh wrong again. Here in CA most diesel is at or under the 87 octane gas. Where I buy mine, diesel is 3.99 and 87 is 4.11. Prices on fuels fluctuate based on stockbrokers whims so that can go anywhere.

Based on prices I have seen on Ecoboost trucks, the diesels are no higher. Not sure about your area, but they are pricey here.

Emissions systems are evolving as well. The Ford 6.0 was a Navistar engine and so was the 6.4 but Ford knew their relationship had come to an end, and was not happy with the poorly designed systems they put on it. The new 6.7 is a Ford engine, and has had little issues, thus far.

GM just recently got a patent on an electric DPF system, that does away with the need to spray piss in your exhaust (urea based DEF) and will put the heavy trucks back in the low 20's for MPG, and the small cars and trucks in the high 30's and 40's.

I do not understand the logic in saying they are cost prohibitive, when you look at cars like the VW Jetta TDI with 45-48 MPG. My neighbor has one and he only gets oil and filter changes, never needs anything else. BMW now has 7 models of diesel cars, and most will be available in the US. Nearly every manufacturer will be offering diesel in the next year or so.

Efficiency wise, the gas engines will NEVER produce the power for fuel consumed, that diesels do. Horsepower does not do the work, torque does, and gas engines have to have far more displacement or fuel to provide it. As for running out of steam? What speeds do you drive? With the newer 8 speed transmissions, most light diesels are coming with, there is a ratio for any road condition or speed any sane person will drive.

Diesel performance is achieved with the crappy fuel we get as well. Gassers need the 91 octane to get anywhere close power wise, and the cetane levels for diesel fuels is pathetically low compared to Europe, where 60-70 MPG in a diesel sedan is not uncommon.

Plus an ignition system failure is one less issue to worry about.
 
   / EcoDiesel, A Maiden Voyage #190  
and the cetane levels for diesel fuels is pathetically low compared to Europe, where 60-70 MPG in a diesel sedan is not uncommon.

Don't forget that emissions regs are more stringent here as well.

Plus an ignition system failure is one less issue to worry about.

Really? There are far more things to go wrong on a diesel. Just ask anyone who has had a DPF go south on them. Or a DEF sensor. Or any of the other myriad number of things that could go wrong on a diesel.

I drive a diesel, but I don't pretend that there are fewer things to go wrong with a diesel.
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

2017 Ford Explorer AWD SUV (A51694)
2017 Ford Explorer...
PALLET OF ARMSTRONG CEILING TILES (A51248)
PALLET OF...
Pallet of (8) 10 Lug Misc Wheels (A51573)
Pallet of (8) 10...
2014 Nissan Rogue Select S SUV (A51694)
2014 Nissan Rogue...
PumpJack Brand Pump Jack (A53472)
PumpJack Brand...
2018 Club Car Carryall 1700 (A51573)
2018 Club Car...
 
Top