So much for a Nissan Leaf!

[DarkBlack]

But "occasional use" of a commercial charging station is not the same as continual use of a petrol station. You can operate the EV its entire life without every visiting a commercial charging station. You cannot say the same about a combustion engine and petrol stations. If the vehicle was only charged at the commercial charging station during its life, it's a fair comparison. But that's not how these vehicles are primarily charged.
It is a stretch to state that the operating costs are 7.5 pounds versus 6.30 pounds per 60 miles to operate an EV 60 miles when most of time, you will be paying a kilowatt hour charge from your home or office meter.

Your statement is only true with major restrictions. The most obvious, being that the comparison would not include the need to go further than a home charge will get you ( most trips ).

 

[ultrarunner]

Call it incentives, subsidies, etc...

Not one person I know with an Electric has gotten rid of it... most have added to the fleet.

In the way of disclosure... all are physicians.

I am very interested to see what they do when the vehicles reach end of life... will they replace the battery pack... will costs go down as production ramps up... inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Loren49]

Loren, you'd do well to not try to push people on wind, (someone like me, for example ) as the real #'s are pretty sad. Solar... that's possible. Even recent proponent of major wind designs are reeling from recent reality numbers. You can't run a country on when and IF the wind decides to blow.

Here are input energy payback periods:
Dispelling myth of energy payback of renewable energy systems : Renew Economy

Table 5.2 Energy payback periods for various technologies

Technology Energy payback period (years) Expected lifetime of technology (years) Reference
Solar PV 0.5-1.8 25 Fthenakis (2012)

1.5 30 Raugei et al (2012)

Wind turbines (large) 0.25-.75 20-25
Martinez et al. (2009)

Concentrated solar thermal (CST) , parabolic trough 2 30 Desideri et al. (2013)

Nuclear (high-grade uranium) 6.5 30 Lenzen (2008)

Nuclear (low-grade uranium) 14 30 Lenzen (2008)

Coal: conventional 1? 30 Raugei et al. (2012)

Coal with CCS ? ? ?
(The table at site is clear but I couldn't get it formatted. First number is payback, second is expected life followed by reference. Wind - less than a year with 20-25 life)

Energy return on investment - which fuels win? | Carbon Brief

http://www.science.smith.edu/~jcardell/Courses/EGR325/Readings/ElecPollution_EnvDef.pdf

This information covers the break even point. After that the renewables fuel costs are free while the others pay and pollute for years.

Do you have information to support your anti wind claims. The wind blows about as evenly as the sun shines. We know when it will shine on a given portion of earth but cloud cover comes and goes. Its the nature of these renewable sources. My home is at the edge of a 300 MW wind energy installation(1200 ft to nearest 395 ft turbine. Lots of myths and fears out there. I'd much rather live next to these than any conventional electricity producing facility. I've also used wind and/or solar for my home off-grid system for 32 years.

In my personal experience solar is preferred over wind. Currently I use only solar. No more climbing the tower or doing maintenance.

Loren

 

[DarkBlack]

Loren, Are you realy prepaired to debate the wind data? Please be merciful to you
rself, and say no.

 

[Loren49]

Loren, Are you realy prepaired to debate the wind data? Please be merciful to you
rself, and say no.

No need to debate. Just present some referenced information if you wish. No need to feel bad for me, I'm just presenting some information and sharing my 25+years of personal experience with wind and 7 years of living with 195 wind generating units close by. I've also dealt with attempts at personal smears by those who attempt to vilify wind energy and am a member of our local Town Board so I've experienced some challenges there also. A clear majority in our County support the wind installation and we have all benefited from the PILOT. http://lewiscountyny.org/content/Generic/View/98:field=documents;/content/Documents/File/1325.pdf
Do you support or oppose the development of wind power as a renewable
energy source in Lewis County in the future?
Response:
Over 89% support or strongly support (2009/2010 surveys)
(system constructed in 2005-2006 and visible from main population center of county)

FYI - Warm summer day here with 10-15 mph. From in our home near the open sliding patio door all I hear is the rustle of leaves and the whir of the ceiling fan. That 395 ft, 1 MW wind turbine is producing well today and not noticed by us though its less than 1200 ft away. What's your experience?

We should probably PM this information so we don't hijack this thread.:thumbsup:

Loren

 

[houstonscott]

Wind is dead, it's a bird killing machine, and the ill health effects are surfacing. They are an expensive eye sore. Wind will never be more than nice experiment that has run it's course and has been discarded as something not to do... Forget wind it's already failed. HS

 

[sseelhoff]

The hostility comes from the hoax motive to bring them to market, the idea that you are saving anything by using them is ludicrous. HS

Electric cars have been around longer than global warming was raised as a justification. My grandfather, an electrical engineer, worked on a prototype electric car in the 40s and 50s.

 

[buickanddeere]

Unless the fuel is sunlight or wind. :confused2:

Loren

Wind and solar are not reliable, are expensive and are toxic industries.
Solar a wind have a niche application for remote power. And for those who have the time and money for such a tinker hobby.
At best there is "net metering" on personal homes. Some solar panels,a grid tie inverter and a bi-directional power meter. No batteries and it shaves daytime peaks during air conditioning season.

 

[sseelhoff]

Your statement is only true with major restrictions. The most obvious, being that the comparison would not include the need to go further than a home charge will get you ( most trips ).

True enough. Range is an issue with EVs. I'm guessing that's what they mean by "occasional use" of a commercial quick charge station-petrol is clearly more convenient/better suited for long trips with the current (no pun intended) state of technology.

 

[buickanddeere]

No need to debate. Just present some referenced information if you wish. No need to feel bad for me, I'm just presenting some information and sharing my 25+years of personal experience with wind and 7 years of living with 195 wind generating units close by. I've also dealt with attempts at personal smears by those who attempt to vilify wind energy and am a member of our local Town Board so I've experienced some challenges there also. A clear majority in our County support the wind installation and we have all benefited from the PILOT. http://lewiscountyny.org/content/Generic/View/98:field=documents;/content/Documents/File/1325.pdf
Do you support or oppose the development of wind power as a renewable
energy source in Lewis County in the future?
Response:
Over 89% support or strongly support (2009/2010 surveys)
(system constructed in 2005-2006 and visible from main population center of county)

FYI - Warm summer day here with 10-15 mph. From in our home near the open sliding patio door all I hear is the rustle of leaves and the whir of the ceiling fan. That 395 ft, 1 MW wind turbine is producing well today and not noticed by us though its less than 1200 ft away. What's your experience?

We should probably PM this information so we don't hijack this thread.:thumbsup:

Loren

You must be upwind of the turbine and partly deaf. I can hear the Late 2000's vintage V2 Vesta machines at over a mile away. Wind turbines are not reliable must be backed up with fossil fuel. There is not enough room in the populated areas of north America to install enough wind turbine to power the country and be 1+ miles from residences.
A wind turbine is a niche product for remote power generation. Or for large fossil fuel companies to obtain carbon credits.