Finally, Hydraulic Backhoe Stabilizer Locks, Lift and Lock,

[WaxMan]

Relief valves.

Surplus Center

I already looked there. To me they all look too big and unusable at the piston. If you mounted them down below you would have to run another hose up to the Rod end and tie it into the valve. Because that is where the shut off valve is.

Edit
Ok, I think I figured out a way.
Remember this picture with the valve placement.
I'll be back...

 

[WaxMan]

Well, I did a lot of reading and looking around and talking to a friend who own a hydraulic shop. I found out that for locking the outriggers booms on big equipment they always has a Hydraulic Lock Valve installed on them.
Some have the valve right on the piston so if a hose breaks somewhere in the system the guy two stories up in the air doesn't come crashing down.

It's a two way locking valve that once the control lever is in the neutral position the piston locks whether it is up down wherever it stops, the piston it stays there. If you lifted up the tractor to remove a tire there is no chance or much less of chance the outrigger will leak down while you're getting the tire fixed.

Are you ever digging and every now and then have to lower the outrigger more because it slowly leaks down this will stop that also.
When the lever is in neutral its locked. When its parked tractor off, and you hit the lever its still locked and kids can't lower the outriggers.
When parked outriggers are up that is where they will stay, Unless your cylinder is leaking by the seal. In that case you replace the seal.

This is what one has to do to Automatically lock a piston anytime the control valve is in neutral.

The plus side you don't have to worry about unlocking or locking outriggers.
You would have to mount the valve under the deck of the backhoe, where there is plenty of room, but you would also have to remake the hoses.
One valve for each side two lines to the valve, two lines to the piston.

Someday this it what I am going to do.
But for now, I'm just going to play with my Ball Valves for a while. For a WaxMan Only Mod

These valves come in a couple of different styles and price range.
This one 1/4 npt fitting most are 1/2.
Northern Tool has one like this but 1/2 npt. The Northern has an adjustment valve so that might be a better choice, just have to use reducer bushing to 1/4

Lock Valves - Port Size: 1/4'' NPT, Type: Double
SKU: #280360
Product Specifications

Designed to lock a cylinder or part of a circuit while a directional control valve is in the neutral position. With directional control valve in neutral position, flow from both ends of cylinder is blocked locking cylinder piston in position. When directional control valve is shifted to direct flow to one side of the cylinder, pressure opens the check ball and simultaneously moves the piston over to the opposite side of the valve opening this check valve allowing free flow return to the directional control valve. Max:15 GPM, 3000 PSI.

Spool Type Port Size
Double 1/4" NPT
Here are some more

Metro Machine Lock Valve-4 Port, Model# 408-04 | Machine Selector Valves| Northern Tool + Equipment

LOCK VALVE 1/2" NPT 25 GPM 3000 PSI

I also checked the pressure it takes to hold up the outrigger, 60 psi
So while the tractor is sitting parked there is always 60 psi of pressure pushing that oil somewhere by the weight of the outrigger. As it drops down the leverage is increased and the pressure goes up and it would drop faster the lower it gets. If I push on it the pressure goes over 100psi Just left alone 60

 

[Coyote machine]

Nice work, but as stated earlier Kioti hoe's have a spring loaded lock arm to keep the stabilizer arms in place when stored, as one example of getting the task done. You created a similar solution for the first hoe you showed. There must be a way to do a similar rig on the hoe you installed the lock lever/valves on, no?
Why go to all the trouble, and expense to add various hoses, valves, etc., when simplest, least costly solution could work?
Would a hook type piece of round stock, (hooks on both ends), not be able to connect to the stabilizer on one end, and the hoe station on the other to hold the stabilizers in place? Retract stabs, remove hooks, go to work?
For instance, in post #41 where your Waxman signature line appears on the pic, there is a hole on either side of the stabs foot-plate. you could run a rod from one foot pad side to the other and it could hook into the hole on each side of the hoe station. Install when not in use, remove when using the hoe. Easy attachment/removal and virtually no expense, other than forming hooks on both ends of a 3/8" rod....

 

[dfkrug]

Would a hook type piece of round stock, (hooks on both ends), not be able to connect to the stabilizer on one end, and
the hoe station on the other to hold the stabilizers in place? Retract stabs, remove hooks, go to work?

I tried hooks and a cable, but every time you forget to remove them, they bend or break. Strong brackets do not
suffer that vulnerability. Whatever solution you use, it must be able to handle the inevitable stress of trying
to lower the outriggers.

 

[dfkrug]

Well, I did a lot of reading and looking around and talking to a friend who own a hydraulic
shop. I found out that for locking the outriggers booms on big equipment they always has a Hydraulic Lock Valve
installed on them.

Sounds like a Dual Pilot-Operated Check Valve, DPOCV. These are commonly used on hydraulic toplinks and would
work fine. The application to HTLs is more common cuz bleed-down while using them affects your work.

Since you are looking for a simpler solution, first try putting the ball valves on the base end of the cyls. I am
curious how well they perform.

You might also consider a small normally-closed solenoid-operated poppet-type valve. These valves, when
closed, require only 500psi in one direction to force the poppet open. You would operate them with a
switch when you wanted free flow to the outriggers. The photo shows a Sterling that I experimented with.
I drew the schematic on the valve. These are much smaller than the DPOCVs you showed.

Another point: your tractor puts out about 2500psi. The BH92 is a well-made hoe, IMO, and it should be
able to handle the full 2500psi, and not be limited to 2000psi. I can not find a pressure spec for that hoe, but
the Kubota loaders use the full pressure put out by the implement pump. If you have a service manual, what
is the official Kubota RV spec for the hoe?

 

[WaxMan]

Nice work, but as stated earlier Kioti hoe's have a spring loaded lock arm to keep the stabilizer arms in place when stored, as one example of getting the task done. You created a similar solution for the first hoe you showed. There must be a way to do a similar rig on the hoe you installed the lock lever/valves on, no?
Why go to all the trouble, and expense to add various hoses, valves, etc., when simplest, least costly solution could work?
Would a hook type piece of round stock, (hooks on both ends), not be able to connect to the stabilizer on one end, and the hoe station on the other to hold the stabilizers in place? Retract stabs, remove hooks, go to work?
For instance, in post #41 where your Waxman signature line appears on the pic, there is a hole on either side of the stabs foot-plate. you could run a rod from one foot pad side to the other and it could hook into the hole on each side of the hoe station. Install when not in use, remove when using the hoe. Easy attachment/removal and virtually no expense, other than forming hooks on both ends of a 3/8" rod....

I hear what you're saying and I appreciate your thoughts. The support bracket has to be very strong, on the Kioti it's in a straight line bracket. Too much of a bend in the bracket will make it weak, it has to be strong enough to not bend or break if you forget to unhook and try to lower the arms.

That is the problem it's not finding some way to hook it up. It's doing it so nothing happens to the lock you just made. As much as you think you won't forget, you will. That will happen, you get on and pull the lever and Oh s**t So it has to be made to work if you start to lower them with the locks on without damage.

That hydraulic arm has a lot of leverage and force. I cut the tabs (heads)off on the earlier backhoe locks because of bending 1/2 SS bolt.
I later learned that just the stud without the head and the hole on the bracket beveled worked with enough pressure slipped right off the stud.
I don't have an after picture. But you get the picture if you cut the head off the outrigger stud.

But On BH92 its not so easy and the offset is much more. I wonder if anyone else made a mechanical hand lock for the BH 92 ?
I think Kubota leaves the locks off because of the problems they can cause. They have one for the boom and the swing? What about the outriggers?
The Hydraulic lock would be the ultimate way to go, its automatic, you don't have to remember to do anything.

I know what you mean about going thru all the trouble but It's not really a big deal installing the valves. You mount the valve mark the hoses where to cut. Bring the hoses to a Hydraulic shop to cut and install new ends. Two in from the valve two out to the piston thats it. Done.

The factory hoses are the right length once cut with new ends and the valve width will give you about 6 inches or more hose length.
So to me its easier to put the Hydraulic lock on rather then make some bracket.
A removable Hook bracket or strap could take your head off if not careful.

Like I said in the beginning I looked at it and did not see a way I could make something easily. And there would be some experimenting involved.
The Hydraulic lock I can see my way through start to finish. It would be the Cadillac of locks.
I'll take your advice and give it another look before I do anything more.

Remember it's not coming up with a bracket that will work, It's coming up with a bracket that won't cause damage if you forget to unlock it.

 

[WaxMan]

I tried hooks and a cable, but every time you forget to remove them, they bend or break. Strong brackets do not
suffer that vulnerability. Whatever solution you use, it must be able to handle the inevitable stress of trying
to lower the outriggers.

Yes Agreed

 

[WaxMan]

Sounds like a Dual Pilot-Operated Check Valve, DPOCV. These are commonly used on hydraulic toplinks and would
work fine. The application to HTLs is more common cuz bleed-down while using them affects your work.

Since you are looking for a simpler solution, first try putting the ball valves on the base end of the cyls. I am
curious how well they perform.

You might also consider a small normally-closed solenoid-operated poppet-type valve. These valves, when
closed, require only 500psi in one direction to force the poppet open. You would operate them with a
switch when you wanted free flow to the outriggers. The photo shows a Sterling that I experimented with.
I drew the schematic on the valve. These are much smaller than the DPOCVs you showed.

Another point: your tractor puts out about 2500psi. The BH92 is a well-made hoe, IMO, and it should be
able to handle the full 2500psi, and not be limited to 2000psi. I can not find a pressure spec for that hoe, but
the Kubota loaders use the full pressure put out by the implement pump. If you have a service manual, what
is the official Kubota RV spec for the hoe?

When I said I'll be back, that was my plan, a solenoid valve. I thought I had a home run because the valve I was looking at would block the flow one way like my hand valve does, but the other way pressure will overcome the popit valve at 150 psi force and release the pressure that we saw in the video.
That is why I took a pressure reading to see how much was needed to hold up the piston.

So I figured two valves normally closed, add 12 volts valve is open. I would make it an Auto Lock with solenoid valves This is Great you never have to think about it Start the tractor valve open, Stop the tractor valve closed system locked. I thought I just came up with the greatest Idea Outrigger Auto Lock.

Then I found out only the normally open solenoid valve had the 150 psi release I needed a normally closed valve, I can keep 12 volts to it when the tractor is Off. The normally closed solenoid valve does not release and won't allow flow both ways so I wouldn't be able to use that, because if you loss the12 volts or the solenoid crapped out it would be just like hand valve with the overpressure blocking off the port.

So after talking to my Hydraulic Shop of how I could put a release valve and still use the Normally closed solenoid if I installed an adjustable crack check valve. I was all ready to go that route. Even ordered the check valves.

My friend that owns the shop called me back the next morning and said A Dual Pilot Operated Check Valve will do the exact same thing as my solenoid set up that I was planing on making BUT without all the plumbing, fittings, solenoids and the12 volts.
PLus the set up I was thinking of would only block that one valve not to allow the outrigger to drop.

Using the Hydraulic Stop Valve It locks the piston both ways. So digging a trench you don't have to keep pushing the outriggers down.


I said thank you very much I could just see me making this elaborate setup tons of fittings post it online then someone comes along and says
All you need is a DPOCV.
Oh boy, I already missed the never put a shut off valve on the rod end. So I guess I have to do a little homewok before I post.

So that is easier by far then the solenoid setup that I was thinking of and it would be less expensive and easier to install. Maybe the one you show is different but why have the 12 volts if there is another way. Plus you would need 4 seloniod valves to do what the DPOCV does.
But you and I think along the same lines with the solenoids :thumbsup:

I'm not sure the hand valve will work on the other end of the piston because the weight of the outrigger is causing 60 psi to flow out the rod end.
Unless the valve will creates a vacuum and stops the fluid flow.
I should at least try that first.Thanks for that Idea dfkrug.

 

[rScotty]

Nice work, but as stated earlier Kioti hoe's have a spring loaded lock arm to keep the stabilizer arms in place when stored, as one example of getting the task done. You created a similar solution for the first hoe you showed. There must be a way to do a similar rig on the hoe you installed the lock lever/valves on, no?
Why go to all the trouble, and expense to add various hoses, valves, etc., when simplest, least costly solution could work?
Would a hook type piece of round stock, (hooks on both ends), not be able to connect to the stabilizer on one end, and the hoe station on the other to hold the stabilizers in place? Retract stabs, remove hooks, go to work?
For instance, in post #41 where your Waxman signature line appears on the pic, there is a hole on either side of the stabs foot-plate. you could run a rod from one foot pad side to the other and it could hook into the hole on each side of the hoe station. Install when not in use, remove when using the hoe. Easy attachment/removal and virtually no expense, other than forming hooks on both ends of a 3/8" rod....

Or even easier yet, take a look at re-designing the pivot geometry so that in the up position there is very little force on the cylinder....or maybe improve the cylinder seal - Yes! That would even be easier and makes sense. Not all backhoe stabilizer legs leak down. My experience is that it is a bit unusual for legs to move on their own. My own Kubota and the JD legs stay right where they should. Thinking back, I've never had one that leaked down. If it did, I'd probably suspect either a leaky seal or leaky control valve. And it makes sense to fix it when it's merely an annoyance than see it become a big problem when the seal completely fails.

Knock on wood, but neither my Kubota nor the JD stabilizer legs ever move off of the park position. If they did, I'd fix it.

I've enjoyed the thread and particularly enjoyed all the innovative ideas and work. But doesn't putting a strap on a leaky stabilizer seem just a bit like putting a pan on the floor under an oil leak?
rScotty

 

[WaxMan]

Or even easier yet, take a look at re-designing the pivot geometry so that in the up position there is very little force on the cylinder....or maybe improve the cylinder seal - Yes! That would even be easier and makes sense. Not all backhoe stabilizer legs leak down. My experience is that it is a bit unusual for legs to move on their own. My own Kubota and the JD legs stay right where they should. Thinking back, I've never had one that leaked down. If it did, I'd probably suspect either a leaky seal or leaky control valve. And it makes sense to fix it when it's merely an annoyance than see it become a big problem when the seal completely fails.

Knock on wood, but neither my Kubota nor the JD stabilizer legs ever move off of the park position. If they did, I'd fix it.

I've enjoyed the thread and particularly enjoyed all the innovative ideas and work. But doesn't putting a strap on a leaky stabilizer seem just a bit like putting a pan on the floor under an oil leak?
rScotty

I think its more common to leak down then not. Maybe it's the pressure pushing on the spool It's not leaking thru the seal in the cylinder otherwise the valve I put on would not work at all. The fluid would just transfer to the other side of the seal in the piston and the rod would move.
My FEL will stay up forever, the backhoe is tapped in somewhere into the system.
I could be wrong maybe most stay up. Both my backhoes leaked down.
Scotty when you get a chance try leaving the main lock off the backhoe arm and bucket and see if it drops down.

Maybe people can reply if their backhoe leaks down after time or if they stay up like Scotty's
Just curuious