Finally, Hydraulic Backhoe Stabilizer Locks, Lift and Lock,

[Coyote machine]

Waxman, thanks for the detailed reply. It's evident you think through your projects carefully before going ahead.
How about a break-away rod with hooks on each end; that if the stabs are activated accidentally will allow the rod to separate but not self-destruct?
One could also hang a small reminder sign over the stab control levers to remind you to remove the bracket/hooks before use.

Another way, possibly, is to make the bracket/hooks strong enough to not break if the stab(s) are activated while the bracket is in place.

BTW, I did one time break one of the spring loaded stabilizer lock bracket bolts, having forgotten it was in place. So I know how that goes, and having done so I am more careful when setting up/breaking down.

I disagree on one point being kicked around in this discussion: having no leak-down and possible need to re-pressurize the stabs might be better than a full lock when in use, to allow some give/take on the smaller sized hoes. I can't say which is best, but thought it worth bringing up for discussion.

And, last item: if a bracket/rod went from one side of the hoe station to the other and had hooks attached to the preexisting holes in the stabs "feet" closest to the boom, the bracket/rod would be kind of hard to miss when climbing onto the hoe, thus possibly eliminating the accidental use of the stabs without releasing the bracket first...

 

[WaxMan]

Waxman, thanks for the detailed reply. It's evident you think through your projects carefully before going ahead.
How about a break-away rod with hooks on each end; that if the stabs are activated accidentally will allow the rod to separate but not self-destruct?
One could also hang a small reminder sign over the stab control levers to remind you to remove the bracket/hooks before use.

Another way, possibly, is to make the bracket/hooks strong enough to not break if the stab(s) are activated while the bracket is in place.

BTW, I did one time break one of the spring loaded stabilizer lock bracket bolts, having forgotten it was in place. So I know how that goes, and having done so I am more careful when setting up/breaking down.

I disagree on one point being kicked around in this discussion: having no leak-down and possible need to re-pressurize the stabs might be better than a full lock when in use, to allow some give/take on the smaller sized hoes. I can't say which is best, but thought it worth bringing up for discussion.

And, last item: if a bracket/rod went from one side of the hoe station to the other and had hooks attached to the preexisting holes in the stabs "feet" closest to the boom, the bracket/rod would be kind of hard to miss when climbing onto the hoe, thus possibly eliminating the accidental use of the stabs without releasing the bracket first...

I disagree on one point being kicked around in this discussion: having no leak-down and possible need to re-pressurize the stabs might be better than a full lock when in use, to allow some give/take on the smaller sized hoes. I can't say which is best, but thought it worth bringing up for discussion

.

So you're saying the sinking of the stabilizer provides a cushion while digging? Maybe,I know what you're saying but It's not supposed to drop, that is not a plus. They are not meant to be shock absorbers. They are meant to make stable "stabilizers" make a stable platform to dig against instead of using your tractor to dig against. When they are wimpy its putting more strain on the tractor, I could be wrong.

And, last item: if a bracket/rod went from one side of the hoe station to the other and had hooks attached to the preexisting holes in the stabs "feet" closest to the boom, the bracket/rod would be kind of hard to miss when climbing onto the hoe, thus possibly eliminating the accidental use of the stabs without releasing the bracket first.

.

Thats how my locks now are, the valves are right there ready to turn just reach out and flip them before you even get in the saddle.
Problem with the Kioti and others is you have to lift the outriggers up a tad to release the pressure against the stops then go down and release the locks.
And you can't do it from the seat easily I don't think.

But why do anything at all, when there is a rock soild way to forget about it.

That is why the Hydraulic lock would be the best for me,
No hooks,
No signs,
No brackets,
No accidents,
No ropes, chains etc.
Nothing to remember
Nothing to forget
or think about,
Except the couple hundred dollars I will no longer have. So there is a cost.
It's nice to have a fancy Mod to show like the manual homemade locks I made on my B3030

But for now I'll keep the dangerous valves on and use with caution.
I don't want to leave it that way so when I get a chance I will put the correct valves on that are made just for this propose.

Like I said it takes a wrench and less then a minute of time to remove them. Nothing has been modified on the backhoe I just undid a fitting and inserted the valve between.
At least for now they won't be in my way in the garage.


It's too bad the pressure raises to damaging levels if misused or accidentally activted, otherwise would have been an excellent Mod. Quick, Easy and simple, unlike most of my other projects. (still have one more thing to try, putting the valves on the other end of the cylinders)

I wondered why it wasn't done before, I thought it was too easy, It does work well, it just doesn't have the what if I forget safety valve.

DangerousWaxMan
modifications with a bang

 

[rScotty]

I think its more common to leak down then not. Maybe it's the pressure pushing on the spool It's not leaking thru the seal in the cylinder otherwise the valve I put on would not work at all. The fluid would just transfer to the other side of the seal in the piston and the rod would move.
My FEL will stay up forever, the backhoe is tapped in somewhere into the system.
I could be wrong maybe most stay up. Both my backhoes leaked down.
Scotty when you get a chance try leaving the main lock off the backhoe arm and bucket and see if it drops down.

Maybe people can reply if their backhoe leaks down after time or if they stay up like Scotty's
Just curuious

Good point....in fact there are several good points there. For one, your experience is that the stabilizers move of their own weight and mine is that they don't - and both of us have experience on more than one tractor - but they are different tractors. So I agree that the reasons could be different. It's not necessarily the seals. A good starting place would be to have more information on how each hydraulic system works and differs from each other. I don't know that and re-reading this thread makes me feel a bit embarrassed at having an opinion before I've even done the homework.


I'm also curious to hear if other folk's stabilizers leak down. My backhoe boom and bucket will move on their own...but at different speeds. I'd assumed that was due to the much heavier weight of the boom on the piston, but apparently that isn't the whole picture. The JD bucket outweighs the Kubota by several times - and the geometry looks roughly the same, but the Kubota BH bucket leaks down in a few days where the JD only moves a couple of inches in that time.

And just to complicate things, I completely agree on the Front loaders. My experience is the same as yours in that Front Loaders tend to stay up almost indefinitely. What's different about Front loaders from backhoes?
rScotty

 

[Coyote machine]

On the 'auto' leak-down of the stabilizers on my Kioti, for reference, it will leak-down if the locks are not engaged. So will the boom, bucket and hydraulic thumb, over time. All except the bucket and thumb have their own manual locks. The hoe gets all it's power from the tractor's HST pump/resevoir.
I agree that the stabs are there to stabilize the hoe on the ground around where it is digging. Rigid locking, no give of the stabilizers, may be the ideal scenario, I don't know for sure.
Personally, now that I have many hours in on the hoe, I tend to delock and relock all hoe locks at idle RPMs, while standing in front of the hoe station, then lower the stabs slowly then climb on the station and adjust them to full down position. This works well for me, and I'm always conscious of where my feet are when lowering the stabs with the "bigfoot" pads they have on the ends of each stab.
Hope this is useful to the OP, and others looking for data on leak-down aspects of various tractor /hoe brands. YMMV.
Note: just because I stand on grade to lower/raise my stabs does not mean anyone else should follow this practice: there is an inherent risk factor in choosing to do so, or not, as recommended by the hoe manufacturers, and a team of liability lawyers from here to Timbucktoo....

 

[techman]

You cant get more PSI into the cylinder than the relieve valve setting OR the pumps max capacity which ever is greater.

There are many references on the internet to cylinder intensification, such as: Intensification Of Hydraulic Cylinder

Be aware that it CAN happen and can cause dangerous conditions. Some applications utilize intensification, such as small units that can take shop air and generate 8000 PSI hydraulic pressure out. It is simple physics, as was shown, based on the effective areas of each side of the cylinder. While it did not blow waxman's seals, in other cases it could blow seals or even the cylinder shell.

Paul

 

[dfkrug]

Some applications utilize intensification, such as small units that can take shop air and
generate 8000 PSI hydraulic pressure out. It is simple physics, as was shown, based on the effective areas of each
side of the cylinder. While it did not blow waxman's seals, in other cases it could blow seals or even the cylinder shell.

Yeah, I was just guessing at WAX's cyl size, and his rods may be bigger than the 1.25" I used in my calc.
In that case, 2000psi in the base can result in 3300psi in the rod end. Bump that rod up to 1 3/8" and you
get over 3900 psi. Not a big concern here, but the pressure is almost double.

 

[Wayne64SS]

I have brand new BH92 on my brand new MX5100HST. My outriggers are the only thing I've noticed that bleeds down over time, they're a pain in the ***. I don't use my tractor much (11hrs since I bought it 8 months ago) it mostly sits in my heated garage and every time I move it I have to move the outriggers to the fully retracted position before I can move the tractor. It's in a very tight location, and luckily all I have to do is read over the rear seat and hit them quick but some type of lock for them would be perfect. I always just assumed this condition was normal, but maybe it needs to be bled or something? Thinking about it now if the bucket doesn't bleed down why would the outriggers.... hmmmm.

 

[dfkrug]

And just to complicate things, I completely agree on the Front loaders. My experience is the same as yours in that Front
Loaders tend to stay up almost indefinitely. What's different about Front loaders from backhoes?

The biggest diff between FELs and hoe attachments is that most FEL boom cyls ate in compression at rest;
hoe boom cyls and hoe outrigger cyls are in extension at rest. Cyls in compression leak down due to
the built-in leaks in the valve only. Cyls in extension leak down due to that PLUS sucking air into the
gland seal, which is not designed to seal well in that direction.

You are fortunate that your machines don't suffer much leakdown, rS. Most of mine do, tho it gets worse
with the # of hours on the machine, the oil temp, etc. My current hoe has a few hundred hours on it
and I see that it leaks down faster that when it was new. Some hoe outriggers in the UP position (e.g.
my B21) are nearly vertical, and that helps a LOT.

 

[Wayne64SS]

Actually I've never noticed anything else leaking down because I always store the machine with pressure taken off all of the other mechanisms (bucket on ground, hoe on ground, etc) except the outriggers i have no way to do that, maybe that's why I notice only those.

 

[dfkrug]

Then I found out only the normally open solenoid valve had the 150 psi release I needed a normally closed valve,
I can keep 12 volts to it when the tractor is Off. The normally closed solenoid valve does not release and won't
allow flow both ways so I wouldn't be able to use that, because if you loss the12 volts or the solenoid crapped
out it would be just like hand valve with the overpressure blocking off the port.

Not sure I follow what you are saying here.

A NC poppet valve on the rod side (only) would lock the outriggers with the tractor off. Forgetting to switch
the valve ON when using the hoe does not cause a problem as the poppet is forced open. You
can even install a microswitch that is triggered to turn the valve ON when you move the control lever.

I love these small monoblock solenoid valves that require no base plate. I also use spool valves of this type
for my hyd thumb and 4-in-1 FEL bkt..

I am looking fwd to hearing the results of your base-end cutoff valve experiment.