wind power???

   / wind power??? #61  
OldMcDonald,

Thanks for taking a look. And not just calling it a stupid idea.

Well it was a thought. Even if it isn't stored at high pressure, I could see it working as a further backup to solar and wind. That would pretty much make someone almost completely independent from the grid in all circumstances.
 
   / wind power??? #62  
jimpen, I am one of those folk who think no idea is stupid. I am very disappointed In the people at the Centre for Alternative Technology. It is a charity that is desperately short of money, has had some brilliant ideas and very good people in the past, but wastes so much on these sort of reports that will not happen, because they cannot. I have basically nil knowledge on hydrogen use, read a little, but do not understand it, so it is not part of my long-term planning. I intend to live forever, so have plans for when the lights go out.
 
   / wind power??? #63  
I do lot of work for oil and gas. They are ripping consumers off because they can. There is no competition to speak of. Producers of oil keep price high and refiners (unless they also own oil source) are on a verge of bankruptcy anytime cost of crude goes up because it is difficult to pass the expense on the customer. That is why the fuel doesn稚 decrease because the refiners are saving reserves for rainy days. I think.
Government goes into many things that will not happen without its involvement. Our country has significant wind and solar resources so why not use them. There are more people employed by alternative energy sector that in coal mines. Those are better jobs that in coal mine. No black lungs either.
If the cost of solar system stays where it is or even decreases I don't see why it will not work for anybody who has reasonable natural condition. And I mean anybody. We installed our system despite the hostility of our local utility. We did that because I wanted one the same way people buy large trucks to get groceries. It makes no sense and it still happens every day. I keep my old junker and have a system that brings about 200 a month in my pocket.
Once the alternative energy reaches significant level it will force utilities or government to act and build long distance transmission lines (DC lines) and develop viable energy storage systems. In fact I think we are already on tipping point. One of the IA utilities wants to build DC transmission line to east coast to sell excess generation from wind farms. IA produces more than 30% of energy from wind. Since East coast is two hours ahead of Midwest IA could send energy to the east when people in IA are still sleeping. And get energy back when the East is already sleeping.
Energy from Wind is already cheaper than from coal.
U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) - Source


Help me out, I can't find it in your link.
Where in that linked article does it talk about 'excess' wind power that you wrote about in your post?
 
   / wind power??? #65  
   / wind power??? #66  
Redneck, Forgive my inability, I cannot build a table or graph of 2013 and 2014 to date temperatures from your PWS. Please do not go to a lot of trouble, but can you readily tell me your highest and lowest daily temps for each year? Also did you have snowcover on the panels?

PV costs, are (I think) higher here than the US, but falling, and I am wondering whether PV might be preferable to a windmill despite our long hot summers. My collaborating near neighbour is like me in a river valley and although wind is fairly constant we get a lot of directional wind changes and swirling. He has done some testing, and actually has some PV knowledge and experience, with some small PV on which he is building up data.

You mentioned at #33 that large windmills will not be seen in hilly area. Here they are almost all along ridges, but only the highest ground (max elevation in the country is 2000m asl about 40 miles from me) receives snow.
 
   / wind power??? #67  
The only reason Denmark exports power is because a vast majority of wind production in Denmark is achieved at night when the wind is blowing and it's not needed. Because of this Denmark exports ( dumps ) this excess to its neighbors at, or below cost because Norway and Sweden can shut down or ramp up it's hydro generated power quickly. Also because of it's government mandated emission requirements Denmark imports a lot of power from Norways hydro system at going rates and that's why fossil fuel generation is down in Denmark. This government interference and social engineering has resulted in the people of Denmark paying close to the highest electrical rates in the world.
In 2009 the government of Norway commissioned a study around developing a wind turbine strategy for their country and it was determined that wind was too expensive and too unreliable. Apart from these two failings, they were also concerned that the life expectancy of IWTs was between 10-15 years as opposed to 60-70 years for conventional power generation stations. They are now, however testing and developing a wind policy that will be tested and proven before being implemented and wide spread installations begin.
 
   / wind power??? #68  
:laughing:
Redneck, Forgive my inability, I cannot build a table or graph of 2013 and 2014 to date temperatures from your PWS. Please do not go to a lot of trouble, but can you readily tell me your highest and lowest daily temps for each year? Also did you have snowcover on the panels?

PV costs, are (I think) higher here than the US, but falling, and I am wondering whether PV might be preferable to a windmill despite our long hot summers. My collaborating near neighbour is like me in a river valley and although wind is fairly constant we get a lot of directional wind changes and swirling. He has done some testing, and actually has some PV knowledge and experience, with some small PV on which he is building up data.

You mentioned at #33 that large windmills will not be seen in hilly area. Here they are almost all along ridges, but only the highest ground (max elevation in the country is 2000m asl about 40 miles from me) receives snow.

OldMcDonald
Here is a link to Weather Station located about 20 km north of my place.
Indianola Town Square Weather | Personal Weather Station: KIAINDIA2 by Wunderground.com | Weather Underground
and this one is about 20 km south of my place
Osceola (I-35) Weather | Personal Weather Station: MROSI4 by Wunderground.com | Weather Underground
and this is my PWS installed in December 2013.
House in Medora Weather | Personal Weather Station: KIANEWVI3 by Wunderground.com | Weather Underground
Yes we get frequent snow in the winter. When sun comes up the panels warm up and the snow slides off few hour later. But I don't wait for it to happen and use a shop broom with extended handle and clean the panels first thing in the morning. In general polycrystalline panels have lower while monocrystalline have higher thermal coefficient. Since we have cold winter I decided on mono panels.
Wind makes no sense for small scale installation anymore. It is more expensive than solar, requires maintenance and the maintenance is 40m high. PV is straightforward. Mount the racking, install the panels, plug all connectors together, flip the switch and you are done. No crane or heavy lifting is necessary.
I will be more than happy to provide any advice regarding the installation.
 
   / wind power??? #69  
Because of this Denmark exports ( dumps ) this excess to its neighbors at, or below cost because Norway and Sweden can shut down or ramp up it's hydro generated power quickly. .

That is exactly how I thought it worked, use the wind energy when it is there and ramp up and down the traditional sources. That means you still need as much traditional capacity but when not in use much of the water that would pass through a hydro dam can be stored behind the dam. Fuel powered plants can back off and save fuel, can they not? I never thought wind energy was intended to be stored.
 
   / wind power??? #70  
Fuel powered plants can back off and save fuel, can they not?

Coal plants and some large LG plants can take hours to spool up or down, so they do better with more constant loads. Smaller, newer NG turbine driven plants are better at quick response, but not too many of them yet in the US.

paul
 

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