wind power???

[Redneck in training]

As another poster already mentioned, don't be taken in by rated capacity on a wind turbine. In Germany and England they have been going crazy installing wind turbines over the last decade and are now finding out that turbines are producing at 17% of capacity in Germany and 20% of capacity in England.

Your information is reported out of context. The speed at which a turbine produces rated power varies typically between 22 to 35 mph. Power of the turbine is proportional to wind speed cubed. That means that when the wind speed is half of the rated value the turbine produces 1/8 of the rated power. It also means that increasing wind speed by 20% power of the turbine increases 73%. Before large scale wind turbines are installed wind resource survey at least one year long is always conducted and energy yield calculated. Statistical probability of occurrence of particular wind speed is described by Veibull distribution (bell shape curve) Windenergie-Daten der Schweiz and it will vary based on particular site. Therefore average energy production of 20% of rated power is not a bad number but in fact rather good result.

For those interested in solar here is a link to solar data for any spot on the globe. Solar photovoltaic power forecast for worldwide locations | PV forecast Europe - SolarServer

 

[Redneck in training]

My biggest concern with wind is too many moving parts.On my solar system nothing moves but the meter and that's the power co's problem.

The worst problem is that all moving parts are 140ft high.

 

[Axe Man]

That being said .......I know someone who's 93 and has smoked since he was 14 so I guess smoking isn't bad for your health.

 

[Axe Man]

Those are average percentages of rated capacity taken over 2years. 20 % is not bad? I always laugh when the greenies talk about nuclear, gas and oil power producers getting government subsidies and why should solar and wind be any different, but they don't mention that traditional forms of power production produce power at night, when it's cloudy, when there's 2 feet of snow on the ground, when there's no wind, when there's too much wind, when there's freezing rain and are very close to producing at their rated capacity.

 

[Redneck in training]

Those are average percentages of rated capacity taken over 2years. 20 % is not bad? I always laugh when the greenies talk about nuclear, gas and oil power producers getting government subsidies and why should solar and wind be any different, but they don't mention that traditional forms of power production produce power at night, when it's cloudy, when there's 2 feet of snow on the ground, when there's no wind, when there's too much wind, when there's freezing rain and are very close to producing at their rated capacity.

You are confusing capacity and rated power. Capacity depends on wind speed at given location. Rated power is the maximum the turbine is designed for. In example your car has 200 BHP but you need only 40 BHP to go 60 mph.
If you spread the solar or wind over large area you will get pretty steady and predictable source of energy. It will require efficient long distance energy transportation network (such as high voltage DC lines). The problem the utilities are having is that solar mounted on private property is not dispatchable (they can't control it) and they make money only on part of the energy produced or not at all. They say PV is bad but for whom. It is good for consumers and bad for the utilities. They would rather build nuclear plant using public money and then use it as an excuse for increasing electric rates.

If you think that 20% is bad look at engine in your car. The very best have 35% efficiency at the best case. And you have to buy the fuel. Wind fuel is free.
Also ask yourself a question if utility would want to build nuclear or coal burning plant a mile from you house what would you do. Like it or not?

Wind energy industry is maturing and will potentially produce large portion of the energy generated.

 

[OldMcDonald]

Redneck, I like your posts and those are great links to your personal weather and PV. Thanks. Are you interested/involved in Astronomy? Just idle curiosity really, because my son is with the Jodrell Bank people at Manchester University.

Axe Man, Are you opposed to all forms of renewable power? Or just wind and solar? It would also help us to understand your objections to wind and solar if we know whether you have some involvement with any part of the fossil fuel industries.

 

[Axe Man]

Thanks for asking Mr. O:
Let me be very clear, I do not work for any oil company nor have I ever done a contract job for any oil company. In fact I hate the b***ards as much as anyone. I think they're ripping off consumers big time.
I seem to be the only person I know that can remember oil was $135 a barrel before the economy crashed in 08 and in Canada gas was at an all time high of $1.35 a liter. Today oil is $98 a barrel and gas is still $1.35 a liter, so No, I have no involvement with " BIG OIL "
I'm against solar and wind, for one simple reason. THEY DON'T WORK.
In order for solar and wind to work you need a viable storage system. All governments are getting into wind and solar for 1 reason and that's so they can " out green" each other and get votes. Installing wind turbines and solar panels before there are viable storage methods is like Henry Ford introducing cars into the market before the internal combustion engine was ready. ( No problem......just hook the car up to a horse and watch it go. We still have the same problem with manure in the streets but it looks good to the public and is a good photo-op. ).
To the people that say Big Oil is only after 1 thing, and that's profit. Big Oil is only after a fatter bottom line and don't care about anything or anybody. I say......you're right.
These same people also say there's big money and lot's of jobs in going green. Build wind farms and solar farms put people to work ( can you say solyndra ) and make big money. If that's the case why isn't Big Oil falling over themselves getting into renewables?
There's many other reasons for not getting into wind eg: Denmark has been installing IWT for 30 years and still hasn't shut down 1 fossil fuel plant. In my opinion wind and solar are just a way for governments to do social engineering, raise prices for energy and make us more dependant on them.
Hope this answers your question.

 

[sseelhoff]

To the people that say Big Oil is only after 1 thing, and that's profit. Big Oil is only after a fatter bottom line and don't care about anything or anybody. I say......you're right.
These same people also say there's big money and lot's of jobs in going green. Build wind farms and solar farms put people to work ( can you say solyndra ) and make big money. If that's the case why isn't Big Oil falling over themselves getting into renewables?

Access Denied

 

[Loren49]

Axe Man - Denmark has been installing IWT for 30 years and still hasn't shut down 1 fossil fuel plant.

If you read this you will see that in 2005 fossil fuels were used for 23526 GWH and in 2012 it was 14052 GWH. Over 9000 GWH less produced with fossil fuels plus they exported over 3800 GWH of electricity.
Electricity sector in Denmark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Looks significant to me and fossil fuel plants will last longer due to less use. Also solar does not show as explained in note #3 but it accounted for a 1% drop in apparent demand.


Loren

 

[Jim Nelson]

I'm kind of on both sides of the fence here as I have both a PV system and a solar water heating system and they work for us in our particular situation. However I don't think they will work for everyone and I'm sure that in the current form will never come close to replacing fossil fuels. What bothers me is regardless where you sit you are expected to be radically one or the other when it seems real obvious that there is a middle ground that can work if given a chance.I believe that at some time we have to decide how much of a socialist society we want to become as far as putting the government in control of energy. I personally am against it because in my view our govt. has proven time and again they can't manage anything. Roof top solar works real well for many if not most but is just not practical on a large scale. The problem is who decides. If every one goes with roof top solar it will send the power companies the way of the buggy whip builders but there is a definite gap that has to be filled at night or on calm days so the obvious answer is fossil fuels.The modern coal fired power generating plants are very clean and efficient but the "greenies" will deny that till hades freezes over and show 50 year old photos or Chinese plants to make their point.
In the end we need to agree that both sides have their place and compromise but there isn't much appetite for that at least in our country right now.