Subsoiler or Middlebuster for for new wildlife food plot

[bhh]

Middlebuster vs Subsoiler.

I've got an excavator and a 12" chipper reserved next week to clear 1 acre of woods for a new food plot.
Per the soils test, I've got 2.5 tons of pelletized lime lime and 250lbs of 19-19-19 stored in the barn.
Fall planting will be winter rye as it is cold hardy and pH tolerant while the lime does its thing followed up probably by buckwheat next summer also as a soil conditioner. I hope to rotate into perennial clover with a winter rye nurse crop the following fall once the soil gets into better shape. I will be no-till/throw and growing so I am reluctant to shell out a lot of cash for a new implement (chisel plow or disc harrow) that is only going to get used occasionally. The disc I may break down and buy at some point but I can't swing it now.

I can however pick up a TSC County Line (yellow grade) middle buster or a subsoiler to help breakup the soil and incorporate this initial liming and fertilizer. I also have Land Pride Box blade with scarifiers but they only get down a couple of inches and a York Rake I will use for trash cleanup and final seedbed prep. I'll cultipack with my tractor tires, or the york rake flipped around backwards, or the box blade with the toplink lengthened all the way so it doesn't dig in.

Would you guys go with the Middle Buster or the Subsoiler? Both? The ground is very high in OM and not compacted so there should not be a layer of hardpan but there are roots and rocks. I know the middle buster will do a better job incorporating the lime and fertilizer but don't know if it will have problems with the roots on the initial pass. I can also mix in some forage radishes as well if I need some additional "deep tillage". Thanks for the help as I need to buy one of these things tomorrow!

 

[jeff9366]

Re: Subsolier or milldlebuster for for new wildlife food plot

I use a Disc Harrow for my food plots.

Rather than the two choices you are offering, consider a $540 row cultivator with a center sweep. The surface will be more uniformly broken up and you will need fewer passes over the land. King Kutter (brand) Row Cultivators are robust.

Row cultivator will be a good match to L3800, I would pull in 2-WD until you encounter a specific situation that requires 4-WD, as a 'fuse' against bending tines against underground obstructions. (Note: Individual arms and sweeps are replaceable.)

Everything Attachments Field/Garden Cultivator with Option for Furrowing and Bedding Attachments | Buy Garden Cultivators Online With Free Shipping From Everything Attachments

TSC sells Countyline row cultivators, manufactured by Tarter in Kentucky.

I can't give you an opinion from experience with Tarter/Countyline equipment.

 

[bhh]

Re: Subsolier or milldlebuster for for new wildlife food plot

Go to ADVANCED and you can edit title in title box for a short time.

Lol, thanks!

 

[jeff9366]

I will be no-till/throw and growing so I am reluctant to shell out a lot of cash for a new implement (chisel plow or disc harrow) that is only going to get used occasionally. The disc I may break down and buy at some point but I can't swing it now.

Get a Disc Harrow with 20" diameter, notched discs, to pull behind your L3800.

Disc Harrow Selection LINK:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/308251-disc-harrow-selection-18-45-a.html?highlight=

 

[bhh]

Jeff, Thanks. That is a fine write up on the disc harrows! Between the $2200 excavator rental, $1100 chipper rental, 2.5 tons of pelletized lime, and many other assorted expenses associated with this, my wife is already about to castrate me. "What! Just to shoot deer!" A disc is really on the list but I just can't pull it off now and have any chance of protecting my manhood. I can swing the $180 or so for the implements I listed however as I'm sure she can find a pair of shoes or something to make it all better Rye will germinate easy enough with little more than scratching up the ground so I'm really just looking for something to help incorporate the lime and fert a bit better at this point. I'm working with 4.8 pH soil with 5.0% OM. I can add the disc next year but I'd be worried about pulling a cultivator through virgin ground.

 

[AaronS]

If you're looking to save money now, I'd use your box blade with the scarifiers all the way down. The plants you're going to use have shallow roots and the lime and fertilizer only need to be incorporated into the first few inches of soil. Broadcast your winter rye ahead of a good rain and you'll be set.

 

[jeff9366]

"What! Just to shoot deer!"

It is so hard to get THEM to understand.

To a certain extent, and over time, lime dissolves in rain and perks down through the soil.

 

[bhh]

It is so hard to get THEM to understand.

Haha, no kidding! Thanks Aaron - that was my original thought but I've started second guessing myself and thought the $160 middlebuster would be cheap insurance to help get the lime down 6-8" right away. The soil test actually called for 3.5 tons so I'll be following up next year with an additional 2,000 lbs of top-dressed lime unless I get the disk before that.

 

[clemsonfor]

I would also use a box blade with the teeth all the way down and it angled forward. I have done this before to break up the ground and it works. I do have a disk though. Bit of your spending that much already I would just find a disk for $500 and not buy the middle busted as you will never use it really. Your only talking g a few hundred more after spending g thousands!!!

I was going to ask about stumps bit I guess the track hoe is for that?

 

[jeff9366]

If you achieve very rich 5% organic matter hitting an exact pH will not be important. I doubt you will find the final 2,000 pounds of lime nearly as important to plant growth as the first 5,000 lime application, pound for pound.

What are you neutralizing? Oak leaves?

Average size Oak stumps (18") rot out in warm, humid Florida in 3-4 years. What trees are you dealing with and what is your average stump rot-to-grade period?

 

[bhh]

He guys, it is currently about a 65/35 mix of smallish white pine/hardwood, mostly less than 12" dia. The hardwoods are a mix of maple and ash with one 10" oak that has to come down. Every pine less than 12" will get chipped and broadcast into adjacent woods, the hardwoods will become firewood. Our soils generally run in the mid 5s so the additional acid is probably from the pine needles although maple leaves have a similar low pH to oak leaves I believe.

Clemsonfor, yea we're going to just push over as many trees as we can with the excavator and dig out the stumps for the rest we have to cut. I've rented an 18,000 lb Volvo ECR88 so most of the pines should push over fine and we'll bury all the stumps. I've been looking for a decent disc for months on Craig's List but haven't had any luck although that's how I found my York Rake which has been awesome for all sorts of things. Even the wife is glad we bought that! I think you guys have me talked out of the middlebuster and just using my BB but I have to run by TSC tomorrow anyway so we'll see. I think I'd probably use the subsoiler more often but should probably spring for the ETA one with sheer pins if I decide to go that way. Thanks again guys. I still have 14 hours to change my mind!

 

[Ford850]

I'll bet you won't need to work the soil much. Pushing trees and pulling roots will have it worked for you. Raking the larger debris, leveling and grading all that will be needed IMO. Rye will take hold great in that soil.

 

[bja105]

Why the chipper? We pile limbs into brush piles, excellent rabbit cover. Tree tops left where they fall are good cover for deer. Most of our deer bedding areas have either tree tops from logging, or windfallen trees. Of course, I have a lot of better uses for wood chips.

 

[Hiltz]

Why the chipper? We pile limbs into brush piles, excellent rabbit cover. Tree tops left where they fall are good cover for deer. Most of our deer bedding areas have either tree tops from logging, or windfallen trees. Of course, I have a lot of better uses for wood chips.

I agree with bja. Don't rent the chipper, save your money and buy a disc. You will use the disc a lot for this type of work. Pile the trees and limbs on one end of your food plot.

 

[bhh]

Hey guys. Nice idea on no chipper but there are approximately 120 pine trees less than 12" in this area that are going to go through it. This particular area lies 100 yards from our house and right next to a trout stream that runs through our property. Don't laugh but one of my negotiation points was that by clearing this spot, we would be able to see the stream from the house and I agreed to make it "pretty" so I can't leave this particular area a mess. A couple photos of crimson clover fields in bloom and it was a done deal My 3-year plan is to add about 3-5 additional acres of food plots so I'll add the disk before the end of winter.

This particular plot wont get hunted over that often being so close to the house but 1 acre of clover and winter rye will provide a fair amount of forage since we don't have an AG nearby. I've got a couple of smaller plots deeper in the woods in openings that were created when some timber was cut by the previous owners but they're currently too small to keep from getting overbrowsed.

Btw, i passed on the TS middle buster and subsoiler.

 

[5030]

Middlebuster vs Subsoiler.

I've got an excavator and a 12" chipper reserved next week to clear 1 acre of woods for a new food plot.
Per the soils test, I've got 2.5 tons of pelletized lime lime and 250lbs of 19-19-19 stored in the barn.
Fall planting will be winter rye as it is cold hardy and pH tolerant while the lime does its thing followed up probably by buckwheat next summer also as a soil conditioner. I hope to rotate into perennial clover with a winter rye nurse crop the following fall once the soil gets into better shape. I will be no-till/throw and growing so I am reluctant to shell out a lot of cash for a new implement (chisel plow or disc harrow) that is only going to get used occasionally. The disc I may break down and buy at some point but I can't swing it now.

I can however pick up a TSC County Line (yellow grade) middle buster or a subsoiler to help breakup the soil and incorporate this initial liming and fertilizer. I also have Land Pride Box blade with scarifiers but they only get down a couple of inches and a York Rake I will use for trash cleanup and final seedbed prep. I'll cultipack with my tractor tires, or the york rake flipped around backwards, or the box blade with the toplink lengthened all the way so it doesn't dig in.

Would you guys go with the Middle Buster or the Subsoiler? Both? The ground is very high in OM and not compacted so there should not be a layer of hardpan but there are roots and rocks. I know the middle buster will do a better job incorporating the lime and fertilizer but don't know if it will have problems with the roots on the initial pass. I can also mix in some forage radishes as well if I need some additional "deep tillage". Thanks for the help as I need to buy one of these things tomorrow!

Neither, disc it up. With a single point tool, you'll be there next spring....lol

 

[Jkott]

I bought a tiller with my tractor. Is is awesome for existing plots, but kinda sucks at breaking new ground that has vegetation, even if round up'd. I just used my middle buster to break up some new ground (I have both the middle buster and subsoiler). The middle buster made the tilling 10 times easier than a cloudless of spots I expanded to tilling without middle busting first.

But you are not going to plant land you only middle busted. You still have to disk, till, or otherwise breakup and level the dirt. Being chincy on implements myself, using a middle buster and then my tiller worked quite well, granted it has been very wet lately and we just got 6" of rain this week so my ground is very "soft".

Also keep in mind that the middle buster will be frustrating if there is any live vegetation as it will bunch up and raise it out of the ground.

Bottom buster is an entirely different purpose, which is to break up hard pan created by repeated tilling.

 

[super55]

I plant rye every year it is one of the easiest crops to establish. If you can get the soil scratched just a little bit the rye will readily take off. When you get ready to plant your clover in the spring. The rye grow to until about mid may. Spread your clover seed and mow down the rye. It will kill off the rye and provide a mulch on top for it to help it get established.

A subsoiler or a middle buster you might use once in a great while for food plotting and is not really necessary.

Instead of running all the brush through a chipper I would move into large piles with the tractor and burn them when snow hits the ground. I don't know what NY laws are on burning brush but in Mi you don't need a burn permit if there is a covering snow on the ground.

If you don't have a mower yet use the money saved from the chipper and subsoiler towards a mower. Mowing is by far the easiest weed control to use for clover especially since it sounds like this plot is next to a stream.

 

[Deerherd]

I like to utilize the brush cleared around food plots to create barriers and funnels to help control where the deer enter the food plot. Especially smaller food plots you describe. Make a decision on where the best stand location will be first and start by stacking brush on the downwind side. This will keep deer from trying to enter directly downwind from your stand. Deer are lazy and will take the easiest route.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

. . .

Btw, i passed on the TS middle buster and subsoiler.

Since you already have a box blade, try shortening your top link a lot. That will raise the back of the blade and allow the scarifiers to penetrate better. Since you're just trying to get some rye planted, I think you could do a half decent job with the scarifiers if you're patient and go over the ground several times in different directions.