120v MIG 3/8" coupon test results

[mikefromnh]

Is it a critical application? One bracket? Hire it out.

Or buy one of these fancy new fangled dual voltage STICK welders.

 

[ThomasH]

Spray arc welds are beautiful and so much easier than laying down short circuit welds. Makes even a novice look good. As I recall it takes something in the range of a Miller 350 (?252) range to deliver enough power though. $$$$

I have a Miller XMT304 (inverter) with a S-52 wire feeder and it takes 250+ amps from it to spray arc with .045 dual shield.

Edited to add: I am using 95% argon and 5% co2 for gas and 28 volts...

 

[Blade Breaker]

I have a Miller XMT304 (inverter) with a S-52 wire feeder and it takes 250+ amps from it to spray arc with .045 dual shield.

Agreed. I have a XMT300 inverter and spray at about 240-260 amps 98-2 gas on 1/4"-3/8" plate. A bit higher on heavier.

Running on 230V single phase 50A breaker.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Inductance has a lot to do with how a welder will spray arc. Voltage is the key...not so much amps. ESAB's are well known for their ability to spray easily. But .045" is a bit thicker. Don't use it typically. Gas mix affect voltage/amperage to spray.

 

[roadhunter]

And we are back to square one with this topic. It amazes me how many people follow this simply to continue the arguing and smart ***** comments, not to add anything constructive. You know who you are.

We have already established that this is not something to be done on a critical weld so there is no need to continue the "this is unsafe argument" or "hire it out". We have also established that there is nothing dangerous about welding 3/8 plates with a 110v welder, nothing. We have also established that the vast majority of welds you see are not good enough to pass a bend test. We even found a terrible factory weld on a ford trailer hitch that was already cracked and the truck is brand new. That was a bit scary IMO.

So a guy only has a 110v welder and does not feel the need to hire out the job of welding a small piece of steel that is non critical. Say my buddy has a plasma cutter and cut me out a trucker girl out of 3/8 steel plate. I'm interested in welding this to my mailbox to let all my neighbors know how I love lot lizards. I'm not going top pay for a mobile welder to come out and weld my 3/8 thick trucker girl to my mailbox as that is a complete waste of $ IMO as this weld is not critical. I dont' have a 220v welder and am not going to buy one simply to weld my trucker girl to my mailbox as between the welder, plug, breaker, leads, conduit, etc... is going to cost hundreds. But I do have a 110v mig machine.

So far several people have taken the time to attempt a 3/8" bend test with a 110v machine, which I greatly appreciate. We have gone over some of the beveling, root opening, preheat, as well as flux core versus solid wire and the different shielding gasses. Obviously none have passed yet but I was impressed with one of the early face bend tests where over half looked pretty good. It seemed to me that that demonstrated that is was likely possible to do a 3/8 groove weld with a quality 110v welder under the correct conditions with a qualified operator.

I also have learned a lot about he differences in the available machines as well as learning about electricity. I hope that the constructive discussion will continue and those who are simply here to derail or be a smart ***** will move along. There is nothing to be gained from that type of behavior and we have all grown tired of these threads being locked because of the actions of a few people. Thanks to those who have been constructive during this discussion.

 

[Sodo]

" I'll copy Bukitcase if I can figger out where he gets that polished flatbar. "

I'd like to see that - but I doubt if you have the patience :laughing: Ya see, it's kinda hard to find - 'bout the only way I've found is to get some normal, either slightly rusty or brand new steel with mill scale still on it - then you can either add a couple gallons of vinegar and wait a week, followed by some lubricant - Or, you can use even MORE lubricant combined with judiciously applied flap disks...

BTW, the "lubricant" I keep referring to is called "elbow grease" -

Oh, also BTW you may wanna find some REAL steel plates to replace those original HF "bondo'd cast iron" - there've been a few guys those exploded on, some with damaged body parts - if you look at my pix, there are two pieces of 1" STEEL plate under my "shiny thang", and that's the reason... Steve

After 14 pages of "get a bigger welder" what makes you think I give up easily? Besides everybody knows a 120v weld can't bust an HF press plate.

Yes saw that stuff, have been watching for some "real steel" plates but scrap is harder to find these days. Bending that first test plate I had to really bear down on that jack handle, while trying to keep a distance from that rickety "bending jig" if it can be called that. A better bending jig would be good to have.

Road, we are back to square 1 because members want to read a popular thread, but they don't want to read 14 pages before getting into the discussion. They are commenting on the most recent posts. Welding forum moderators don't assert etiquette to stay on-topic or to read back before posting so this is the quality we will get. Some fellers post their off-topics in this thread just to get eyeballs.

Thankful to those members who do care to discuss a subject in an intelligent manner. Thankful to pro-welders who will take their valueable time and donate it to education (or "sport" ). Maybe this forum is a hobby/maintenance/sport welding .

 

[Blade Breaker]

And we are back to square one with this topic. It amazes me how many people follow this simply to continue the arguing and smart ***** comments, not to add anything constructive. You know who you are.

We have already established that this is not something to be done on a critical weld so there is no need to continue the "this is unsafe argument" or "hire it out". We have also established that there is nothing dangerous about welding 3/8 plates with a 110v welder, nothing. We have also established that the vast majority of welds you see are not good enough to pass a bend test. We even found a terrible factory weld on a ford trailer hitch that was already cracked and the truck is brand new. That was a bit scary IMO.

So a guy only has a 110v welder and does not feel the need to hire out the job of welding a small piece of steel that is non critical. Say my buddy has a plasma cutter and cut me out a trucker girl out of 3/8 steel plate. I'm interested in welding this to my mailbox to let all my neighbors know how I love lot lizards. I'm not going top pay for a mobile welder to come out and weld my 3/8 thick trucker girl to my mailbox as that is a complete waste of $ IMO as this weld is not critical. I dont' have a 220v welder and am not going to buy one simply to weld my trucker girl to my mailbox as between the welder, plug, breaker, leads, conduit, etc... is going to cost hundreds. But I do have a 110v mig machine.

So far several people have taken the time to attempt a 3/8" bend test with a 110v machine, which I greatly appreciate. We have gone over some of the beveling, root opening, preheat, as well as flux core versus solid wire and the different shielding gasses. Obviously none have passed yet but I was impressed with one of the early face bend tests where over half looked pretty good. It seemed to me that that demonstrated that is was likely possible to do a 3/8 groove weld with a quality 110v welder under the correct conditions with a qualified operator.

I also have learned a lot about he differences in the available machines as well as learning about electricity. I hope that the constructive discussion will continue and those who are simply here to derail or be a smart ***** will move along. There is nothing to be gained from that type of behavior and we have all grown tired of these threads being locked because of the actions of a few people. Thanks to those who have been constructive during this discussion.

Look at the title of the thread, that is different from welding mail box accessories. Advice for welding a 3/8" lot lizard to your mail box is turn it up and smoke around it and then take pictures. I wrote in a post a long time ago that you can get stuff to stick with these welders even on heavy plate.
No special tricks to welding things like you mentioned. Just do it.

Back in welding school we were testing with 3G aluminum plates. We used to just take the aluminum spool gun and tack to the steel positioning bars. The positioning bars were all chewed up with old tacks and chipping hammer marks so the aluminum would squish into the cracks and hold the test plates up there just fine for what we were doing. Sounds crazy but it worked.
I also seen a platform in a food plant that was aluminum decking on a stainless structure that was all welded together. That was the most unbelievable thing ever. The deck was sitting on the structure so it couldn't fall but man it was dumb.

 

[FarmDad]

So to sum up the thread ... Experienced welders have said on previous threads " its not going to work " , experienced welders have shown on this thread that it wont work . Some are still stamping their feet demanding it work in spite of the facts . It comes down to ... You cannot weld with power you don't pay for . If you need to weld heavier material you simply have to bite the bullet and either buy a 220 welder ... or hire that weld out to someone who has one .
Sure you can stick a bracket to something but then you can do the same thing with JBWeld and likely with as much success . The question is , do you really want to ? If you don't do it right you will do it over .
As nice as it would be to buy an $90 mig and weld anything you could look at it simply dont work that way . 110 migs are fine machines for what they are designed for which is thin material , If you need to weld thicker material then you need a larger machine and for that matter might want to look at a different process if your doing a lot of outside work .

 

[CNC Dan]

As nice as it would be to buy an $90 mig and weld anything you could look at it simply dont work that way . 110 migs are fine machines for what they are designed for which is thin material , If you need to weld thicker material then you need a larger machine and for that matter might want to look at a different process if your doing a lot of outside work .

There is a big difference between a $90 120 volt welder and $600 120 volt welder.

 

[FarmDad]

Great Contribution Farm Dad. If all you are going to say is "hire it out" and "buy a 220v welder" you could have saved your breath. That has already been said many times.

And apparently not believed in spite of any and all evidence .

The fact that you are comparing JB weld to 110v welders and said they cost $90 pretty much shows you have no clue what you are talking about and you are not contributing anything to the discussion. Keep up the great work.

Ok , you got me there , lets try $111.99 90 Amp Flux Wire Welder

There is a big difference between a $90 120 volt welder and $600 120 volt welder.

That may well be true , however you still cant get the weld you need for thicker materials out of 120v no matter what you pay for it . There simply isn't enough energy there, and that has been not only advised but shown .

Its too bad that the subject has become such an emotional investment for some here to the point that they cannot step back and just look at not only the opinions but the evidence presented . No one is saying that you cant take your favorite little mig and stick a piece of inch bar to your car bumper or whatever .. you can . However you cannot do it with a weld that will hold up , the energy to do so simply is not present .
I really dont have much of a dog in this fight because i dont currently own a mig of any voltage . I simply dont weld enough thin stuff for it to be economical for me to buy one .. even the $111 cheapie . I have a neighbor with a mig , and when i need to weld thin material i take it down to his shop , I don't fight it with either of my stick machines . The right welder and process for the right job .

Edited to add

I do confess that this machine is interesting and might well be on my gotta have punch list in the future due to the price of right at $1,000 for that much multiprocess