120v MIG 3/8" coupon test results

[Reverser]

Now with all that said, someone is going to disagree and tell me you can take down an angry elephant with a BB gun.

Or.......take him down with 120 volts and do a bend test on him.

 

[Sodo]

Now think of which burner you want to put the skillet on? Do you want to be there all day? Are you going to but a 10" cast iron skillet on a 4 inch burner set to medium low heat to fry chicken??snip>?..Now with all that said, someone is going to disagree and tell me you can take down an angry elephant with a BB gun.

Most people are declining to "tool up" for angry elephants because there are none around. Mark your 10inch skillet analogy is for the guy who HAS thicker material projects, and HAS 240v service too. Not the case here.

IMHO, of course,,,,, Pretty sure we're pursuing this exercise (of welding double the thickness on 120v) for the case where a guy wants to learn how to get er done without buying a new welder and without re-wiring the garage for 240v, for one bracket.

It is a matter of how large the base metal is and its thermal conductivity. I hope this analogy made some sense.

James yes it makes perfect sense. The SIZE of the work has an effect too. Welding a small 3/8" bracket may be feasible, with tricks, but welding out in the middle of a large chunk of 3/8" plate, is far less feasible.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

No, :duh:
Sodo, :mur:
I think at this point you don't understand the fundamentals of welding and the flaws in the foundations of your own argument.
It reminds me of the mechanic who uses a hammer to fix everything. Hit it hard enough and if it works...say "magic"...and if doesn't say we'll try it again.
My analogy was for those people who want to eat raw or burnt chicken by using the wrong eye because they don't have a larger one or it's burnt out.
Tricks my friend are just that...tricks. When you say trick or treat and someone gives you a trick because they didn't have a treat, you'll figure out why you should leave those houses alone next year.

Moral of the story? Get a bigger eye or learn to deal with the perils of eating raw, greasy chicken...or use a birthday candle to cook the chicken till it's done if you want.

You don't get into a Cessna and do a nose dive to try to break the sound barrier because you don't have a jet....well you could and you could have people talk about how to do it...but when the wings come off you could talk about using stronger duct tape to hold them on.

Enough analogies?

 

[MossRoad]

Or.......take him down with 120 volts and do a bend test on him.

Thomas Edison executed and elephant with AC power. (6600 volts... probably didn't have that in his garage either).

 

[Arc weld]

More passes also gives a finer grain structure but you still have to have to put enough heat into the steel to get proper fusion. Critical pipe welds will call for stringer beads instead of weaves. To meet AWS specs. Lincoln NR211 required about 21 passes on 3/4" plate :shocked: Gear vs hydro? Hmmm... Lincoln has the 300D with 5 gears for course adjustment and they also have the SAE300 with continuous course adjustment. Lets start this debate so at least we can get some decent penetration.

 

[Sodo]

Tricks my friend are just that…tricks. Enough analogies?

Agreed analogies don't work on forums. Plus they invite off-topic rants, moderators can't even stay on-topic. :laughing:

Anyway, by tricks I am referring to normal processes that the maintenance/hobbyist welder may be unaware of. For example bevel, multipass (maybe even preheat if no welders on TBN can do it without). Or heard of but haven't seen it done, and haven't seen it tested. And WANT to see it discussed, performed, tested.

The challenge is to weld thicker material than is normal for a 120v machine. Who cares if the "proper" machine can do it? Of course it can, that's not news and its not a challenge. Getting a 120v MIG'd 3/8" test plate to pass a bend test, is a worthy challenge that many people will learn from. If that's not great forum fodder then what is?

It can be done, it's just a matter of who has the time to take it all the way. Agreed it takes time, but I bet it takes less time to weld it than has been spent typing. Preparing the plate and bending it per AWS probably adds a lot though.

Look at the post above, that Arc let loose? (referring to the on-topic part) How would you ever get that kind of great info out of him without him answering to this subject, pushing a process to its limits? Come on you guys, lighten up and lets keep on this subject!

 

[Arc weld]

It can be done, it's just a matter of who has the time to take it all the way. Agreed it takes time, but I bet it takes less time to weld it than has been spent typing. Preparing the plate and bending it per AWS probably adds a lot though.[/QUOTE]

FANTASTIC! Sodo is going to take some time off from typing to try the bend test on 3/8" plate for us. :cool2: How it's bent isn't very critical as a weld should be stronger than the base metal anyway. ER70S-6 wire has significantly more tensile strength than mild steel to begin with, around double. Bend it around a 1"-1 1/2" round bar will work just fine. We eagerly await the results.:thumbsup:

 

[Sodo]

FANTASTIC! Sodo is going to take some time off from typing to try the bend test on 3/8" plate for us. :cool2: How it's bent isn't very critical as a weld should be stronger than the base metal anyway. ER70S-6 wire has significantly more tensile strength than mild steel to begin with, around double. Bend it around a 1"-1 1/2" round bar will work just fine. We eagerly await the results.:thumbsup:

Cool. 1-1.5" round bar sounds like a gentle bend compared to the 45deg knife edge I bent it with before.:thumbsup: Plus I've learned a few more details in the last few weeks (I think). But my welder is in one shop and the press is in a different shop 135 miles away. And I'll have to build a bending jig too (with 120v). I'll copy Bukitcase if I can figger out where he gets that polished flatbar.

You fellas stand back when you look at that pic, don't want anybody to get hurt!

I'm outta town for the next week maybe can 'keyboard weld' whenever I find a little wifi. I'll weld and bend again when I can find the time but if you fellas want to see it per AWS you gotta do it that way, thats a little beyond the hobby/maintenance guy. I'd get some part wrong and then the weld and the test will be a "fail" (to some).

 

[BukitCase]

" I'll copy Bukitcase if I can figger out where he gets that polished flatbar. "

I'd like to see that - but I doubt if you have the patience :laughing: Ya see, it's kinda hard to find - 'bout the only way I've found is to get some normal, either slightly rusty or brand new steel with mill scale still on it - then you can either add a couple gallons of vinegar and wait a week, followed by some lubricant - Or, you can use even MORE lubricant combined with judiciously applied flap disks...

BTW, the "lubricant" I keep referring to is called "elbow grease" -

Oh, also BTW you may wanna find some REAL steel plates to replace those original HF "bondo'd cast iron" - there've been a few guys those exploded on, some with damaged body parts - if you look at my pix, there are two pieces of 1" STEEL plate under my "shiny thang", and that's the reason... Steve

 

[square1]

Pretty sure we're pursuing this exercise (of welding double the thickness on 120v) for the case where a guy wants to learn how to get er done without buying a new welder and without re-wiring the garage for 240v, for one bracket.

Is it a critical application? One bracket? Hire it out.