Wiring subpanel

[Mac25]

Mac it''s not ground . It's a neutral . Tell me what current is flowing through the wire and bar? As for your panel it is antiquated and dangerous so change it out . Show me your electrical credentials .

I am not here doubting anyone, just trying to gain some knowledge on the situation. Very seriously doubt the panel is outdated since the home was constructed less than 10 years ago, but I guess I'll change it since you apparently have some kind of special electrical credentials.

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[GPintheMitten]

I think your description of the house panel created some doubt about it meeting code. If a licensed electrician installed it 10 years ago it's probably ok. It might just be a matter of terminology.

Still, if you have any doubt ask the inspector to take a look at it.

Moss oak provided a good diagram. Study it and then talk to the inspector about your project. He may allow you to run another 2 awg to have a 2 2 2 4 wire to feed the barn panel. The 4 is for ground, the others are for each hot lead and neutral. If your using aluminum use a dielectric grease like no ox on yoyr connections to prevent corrosion

 

[GPintheMitten]

Sorry, the diagram was from MossRoad, not moss oak.

 

[yelbike]

That is at odds with NEC code. The neutral-ground bonding should only happen in one place downstream of the main service entrance, and that is at the main breaker panel. All other sub panels fed from the main panel, whether in the same building or in out buildings, should not bond neutral and ground.

I think there is a lot of confusion about ground (and probably neutral). Really, the ground circuit has a couple purposes. One is as a chassis ground, to return any shorted current back to neutral (at that single bonding point). It's like a backup return path to the main service entrance. Another is to serve as an earth ground for stray/excess current that is not part of the normal service (lightning strikes, wiring errors, etc). Rather than think about all the scenarios and second guess things, I just stick to code.

I realize NEC and cec are different but after some discussion and thought this is what I come up with.

You can run 3 conductors from the main entrance and than install another ground source at the outbuilding. Ground source would be two driven rods or a plate. In this installation you would leave the neutral to ground jumper installed.

Or.

You can run 4 conductors to the outbuilding. Now there's no need for a second ground source. In this case you'd remove the neutral to ground jumper.

Credentials: "M" licensed electrician, unrestricted "HE" licensed electrician and power electrician (utility). This still doesn't make me an engineer.

 

[JPRambo]

You can run 3 conductors from the main entrance and than install another ground source at the outbuilding.
Or.

If by "main entrance" you mean "meter can" I agree. If after meter I disagree. At least here in sunny Florida you must separate the neutral and ground after the first disconnect (main breaker)

 

[Inspector507]

The NEC used to permit running 3 wires to a second structure and ground the neutral there. It has since changed and requires 4 wires. You need to have a grounding electrode at the second building tied to the ground bar. No neutral bonding jumper.

 

[MossRoad]

Sorry, the diagram was from MossRoad, not moss oak.

Hey, it all grows on the north side!!! :laughing:

 

[Mac25]

The NEC used to permit running 3 wires to a second structure and ground the neutral there. It has since changed and requires 4 wires. You need to have a grounding electrode at the second building tied to the ground bar. No neutral bonding jumper.

So amongst all the confusion, I am going to return my 2-2-4 wire, purchase 2-2-2-4, run two hots, neutral and a ground to my barn panel, unbond the neutral and ground there, install another ground on the ground bar leading to a couple grounding rods. Sound like it should work?

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[GPintheMitten]

So amongst all the confusion, I am going to return my 2-2-4 wire, purchase 2-2-2-4, run two hots, neutral and a ground to my barn panel, unbond the neutral and ground there, install another ground on the ground bar leading to a couple grounding rods. Sound like it should work?

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That's what I would do. But I would still pull a permit and get an inspection.

 

[MossRoad]

That's what I would do. But I would still pull a permit and get an inspection.

Yep. Because if your house burns down, your insurnace may not cover it.