Comparison Home Stand By Generators

[Garandman]

There are plenty of big diesel gensets, including all the milsurp units. If we heated with oil they would have been a consideration.

We went with the propane model because we already had propane tanks on the property, and it is a lot more stable than the currently available gas/ethanol mix.

 

[doxford jim]

I think another point that should be considered is safety of the fuel if there was a leak. Natural gas and propane could be very dangerous as could gasoline. Diesel on the other hand, is probably the safer fuel for storage. Not a major consideration, but where you have the generator and fuel storage could be important.
For the record, I do have diesel and live in a cold climate. My unit is a manual start and change over switch, so it could be hard starting of the battery was low on charge. For this reason I keep two batteries in the generator shed. The generator was already installed when I bought the house.
Thanks.

 

[doxford jim]

I think another point that should be considered is safety of the fuel if there was a leak. Natural gas and propane could be very dangerous as could gasoline. Diesel on the other hand, is probably the safer fuel for storage. Not a major consideration, but where you have the generator and fuel storage could be important.
For the record, I do have diesel and live in a cold climate. My unit is a manual start and change over switch, so it could be hard starting of the battery was low on charge. For this reason I keep two batteries in the generator shed. The generator was already installed when I bought the house.
Thanks.

 

[Toyboy]

I think another point that should be considered is safety of the fuel if there was a leak. Natural gas and propane could be very dangerous as could gasoline. Diesel on the other hand, is probably the safer fuel for storage. Not a major consideration, but where you have the generator and fuel storage could be important.
For the record, I do have diesel and live in a cold climate. My unit is a manual start and change over switch, so it could be hard starting of the battery was low on charge. For this reason I keep two batteries in the generator shed. The generator was already installed when I bought the house.
Thanks.

The same could be said for your water heater, furnace and gas stove. At least if there is a leak at the GenSet, being outside it will not accumulate, and will dissipate in the air.

 

[K man]

I do understand that diesel fueled generators will last longer and more fuel efficient than propane or natural gas. My problem with diesel fuel is the smell makes me nauseous and once it is on your cloth, ground it smells forever. Diesel generator are also loud so it should installed very far away from the home especially if you live close to neighbours.

 

[DarkBlack]

Just ran the whole house and well pump on my 5kw for 2 days straight. You guys needing 15-20kw units must have a house like a factory ( excluding farms ).

 

[patrick_g]

Just ran the whole house and well pump on my 5kw for 2 days straight. You guys needing 15-20kw units must have a house like a factory ( excluding farms ).

There are many many considerations when contemplating emergency power. Fuel alone has many facets including convenience, storage life, cost, and others, For the minimalist who wants a bit more than he can rely on from solar panels and storage batteries, a small gasoline powered portable genset might do all he wants to keep a refrigerator, freezer, TV, and some lights going and doesn't need to run 24-7. Wouldn't need a huge fuel supply so rotating fuel through vehicles so the stored fuel didn't go stale (with modern gasoline fuel preservatives like Stabil aren't as effective as they once were) and you have a qualified success.

Arguing the safety of diesel vs the danger of propane and natural gas is a waste of time. Until or unless for safety's sake you switch over to diesel for your hot water heater, cook stove, etc. you are not taking your own advice. Others have pointed out, and rightly so, that a properly installed LPG or Nat Gas fired genset is no more dangerous than a water heater, furnace, or whatever and actually less so since if not enclosed in an unventilated space (outrageously dumb) it is safer than most domestic appliances on natgas or LPG.

Regarding the supposed economy of a Diesel under partial load vs gasoline, natgas or LPG, Anybody here get the same mileage on their vehicle regardless of load when driving a steady speed? Is there an internal combustion engine in common use that uses the same fuel per hour under light load as full load? There are standby gensets (in all the fuel types) that idle when no electrical load is switched on and so use less fuel than running at standard RPM (for 60 cycle power.) The longest outage we have had since installing our genset was 4 days. I shut it down to check the oil a couple times a day (just to be sure) could have shut it down overnight some nights because it didn't really need to run the heat overnight as we have some propane gas logs for just in case (plus decorative effect.)

When weather is truly nasty and an ice storm or downed trees take out power for a day or so I like knowing the genset is running off a 1000 gal propane tank (800 gal usable) and I won't be out there is 40 kts of wind trying to pour liquid fuel in the general direction of the fuel filler.

Had I found a bargain in diesel gensets I may have installed one and a good sized tank to fuel it and let my cost savings in the purchase price dampen the fires of concern over short runs and acid contamination of the lube oil and so forth. Natgas or LPG burn super clean. (Neighbors are not a concern as they are 1/4 mile away at the closest.) As it is I frequently don't hear the 17KW LPG unit exercise itself unless I am in my shop closer to it than the house. Its LCD readout keeps track of all the important data and reminds you of oil changes etc.

Do I need 17 KW? No but... I can run any of my arc welders if I want to. I can run routers, planers, joiners, table saw, lathe, etc. and not just sit huddled under an electric blanket powered by a small inexpensive portable manual start gasoline genset. (good emergency strategy though.) I can run my ham station's kilowatt linear amp if I want to. I can run my hydronic in-floor heat with its geothermal heat pump and enjoy running around the house barefoot on warm tile floors. Not for everyone's taste or budget but we like it.

The most important decision is not the fuel your genset burns. Instead it is to have a genset that can be operated safely when you aren't there. This might assume your wife can pull start an economy model in freezing temps or the genset is an autostart unit with automatic transfer switch (highly recommended.) Better to have a smaller genset that is fully automatic (you may not be home when the power goes out) than a giant monster genset that is manual start and relies on extension cords or other Rube Goldberg approaches. Be safe. Also don't compromise the safety of the utility crews. The installation MUST ensure that you can not backfeed the grid. It is not only illegal but you could kill a worker who is out there in whatever horrendous conditions trying to restore your power.

Patrick.

 

[buickanddeere]

How many of the minimalists here don't understand that going with the absolute minimum spec generator . Is not the most cost effective route.
Operating a small consumer grade generator at more than 80% of max current continuous is NOT a good idea. A too small generator drops voltage and frequency when motors start. These conditions can burn out the generator, motor or other electrical equipment . The circuit breakers also take a beating with the extended surges of high current.

 

[patrick_g]

How many of the minimalists here don't understand that going with the absolute minimum spec generator . Is not the most cost effective route.
Operating a small consumer grade generator at more than 80% of max current continuous is NOT a good idea. A too small generator drops voltage and frequency when motors start. These conditions can burn out the generator, motor or other electrical equipment . The circuit breakers also take a beating with the extended surges of high current.

Amen brother, Yea verily "Right Sizing" a genset is NOT finding the smallest genset just barely able to run your steady state loads with no margin for the heavy startup loads of some equipment. The cheapest initial cost solution is often NOT the most economical overall. Recall James Cagney in "Soylent Green?" pedaling a stationary bike to spin a generator to watch TV. Great for your waistline but not a convenient long term way to power your frige and freezer. I personally don't like to run a genset long term at over about 70-75 % rated continuous output leaving sufficient reserve capability to start motors with no serious difficulties.

Trying to go cheap may actually cost more over time.

G'day y'all!

Patrick

 

[GManBart]

OK, I'll jump in on this. A couple years ago I had an automatic 20kw Generac running NG installed. I could have gotten by with a 17kw but the cost difference was only a couple hundred for the bigger unit.

We live in a rural area but have the convenience of NG. Now the Generac carb has a lever that you can switch from propane or NG so no worry about getting the wrong fueled unit. The GenSet also comes with a built in trickle charger that keeps the battery fully charged when your on the grid.

We have a well, septic lift pump, 2 fridges and a freezer, electric washer & dryer, dishwasher, 2 microwaves, 1700 sq ft detached heated garage, 3 electric garage doors, AC, alarm system... and a bunch of other stuff that I could go on listing. Oh yeah, and a wife that's a cousin to "chicken little"!

Now I went for convenience , no hassle, start up - run - shutdown even if we're not home, vacations etc. Do I care about fuel consumption.... he!! no. I care more about our home and contents. We do not want to return from an extended vacation.. whatever, and find the power went out 2 days after we left and have a big mess to clean up in the summer OR winter.

Now if we were home body's and were available to run extension cords, haul gas, manually activate transfer switch, we may take a different view of things, but I doubt it. There's just something about running extension cords through a open window at -15 F that don't appeal to me.

Now those that live in warmer climates could very well do with less, but where we live, the north woods, I don't want to mess around.

Anyone living in cold climates should have the cold weather kit installed on the unit, factory or dealer. Also whatever brand you choose (your choice) make sure the dealer is full service. There are a lot more dealers out there that do the install but not the mechanical service. You want one that does both.

A few details aside (we don't have a well) this is pretty much my situation as well. We could have gotten by with the 17KW, but for a couple hundred bucks went up to the 20KW. My wife works from home, but has a high level job, so she has to be able to work even if the power goes out....we have a backup internet hotspot and smart phone service so she can continue to take calls, check/send e-mails etc. They pretty much expect her to be available no matter what, or she could lose her job (her company is based in Washington, D.C. so there's no commuting option).

The other thing is that my wife is barely 5'2" tall, and just over 100lbs. I'm frequently gone for 1-4 weeks at a time for work. If we have an outage she's not hauling gas cans back and forth to the closest station (10 miles), much less dragging out a portable generator, and figuring out how to plug it in, and get it started....not happening.

As it stands, when we have an outage, my wife looks at me and says "that generator was the best money we've spent on our house!" It's run as long as 24 hours at a stretch, and a couple of times it was during extreme heat or cold situations (once nearly 100*F and the other sub-zero temps last winter). I sat inside, cool or warm, both times and couldn't have been happier about it!