Grid-tied solar

   / Grid-tied solar #651  
Maybe one of you will know. Is there a way to use the solar panels with a small inverter type generator like maybe a Honda 2000i. To supply power during an outage (thinking days or weeks not hours) for things like heating while your away during the day. Then after dark switch to a larger genset maybe even whole house during the night when power usage is greatest. Of course this would need lockouts and proper switch gears. But is it possible?
 
   / Grid-tied solar #652  
Farmer,

No its typically not possible to run the generator and the PV system during an outage. I say "typically" because there is probably a way to do this but you would need a fair amount of switching to accomplish this to code. The costs would outweigh the savings I think of a standard generator system

Likely others will chime in on this in more detail.
 
   / Grid-tied solar #653  
Farmer,

No its typically not possible to run the generator and the PV system during an outage. I say "typically" because there is probably a way to do this but you would need a fair amount of switching to accomplish this to code. The costs would outweigh the savings I think of a standard generator system

Likely others will chime in on this in more detail.

I have thought of that and as long as its an inverter (so it can throttle down) and the solar is tied into the main panel, the solar shouldn't know the difference between the grid and a generator.

Aaron Z
 
   / Grid-tied solar #654  
Aaron,

Solar output is variable - clouds and rainy days and much of the time when we lose power its bad weather - snow or hurricanes, etc.

I agree with you that the solar should not care the source of power, but with 2K generator and variable output of solar would only support a small load - a few lights and maybe a furnace or fridge. In order to get more level output capacity a battery bank on the solar would be one way - there may be others.

This is more like an "off grid" or hybrid type system..
 
   / Grid-tied solar #655  
Aaron,

Solar output is variable - clouds and rainy days and much of the time when we lose power its bad weather - snow or hurricanes, etc.

I agree with you that the solar should not care the source of power, but with 2K generator and variable output of solar would only support a small load - a few lights and maybe a furnace or fridge. In order to get more level output capacity a battery bank on the solar would be one way - there may be others.
Agreed. My thought is that if you have an inverter (generator or battery powered) sized to carry your load the solar could take the load off of the generator and let it idle down saving gas or battery for when its dark out.

Aaron Z
 
   / Grid-tied solar #656  
Aaron, Solar output is variable - clouds and rainy days and much of the time when we lose power its bad weather - snow or hurricanes, etc. I agree with you that the solar should not care the source of power, but with 2K generator and variable output of solar would only support a small load - a few lights and maybe a furnace or fridge. In order to get more level output capacity a battery bank on the solar would be one way - there may be others. This is more like an "off grid" or hybrid type system..

Yes solar is variable but if you will watch around bad storms (atleast in my area) the few days after the storm. Being ice or tornados or snow is usually sunny. Bad Storms don't come through and then leave clouds around for days, they use up what ever energy is in the atmosphere and then leave clear skies. My thoughts were about low usage times. Running a gas or wood heaters blower. A fridge and freezer when needed.

Maybe it come down to another post. Not as much about is it possible but is it feasible.
 
   / Grid-tied solar #657  
I really am enjoying this thread, it has got me to thinking.
Hmm....
 
   / Grid-tied solar
  • Thread Starter
#658  
Yes solar is variable but if you will watch around bad storms (atleast in my area) the few days after the storm. Being ice or tornados or snow is usually sunny. Bad Storms don't come through and then leave clouds around for days, they use up what ever energy is in the atmosphere and then leave clear skies. My thoughts were about low usage times. Running a gas or wood heaters blower. A fridge and freezer when needed.

Maybe it come down to another post. Not as much about is it possible but is it feasible.

TnAndy is a great resource for this discussion. If I understand his system, he is set up to switch his grid-tied system output into his off-grid system when the power is off. The off-grid system has a battery bank and that is very useful for electrical loads.

The batteries do what the grid does in a grid-tied system. They fill on-demand calls for power that exceed the solar panels current (in time) output, and they are somewhere to store power when the load is below the panels' outputs, and of course supply 100% of the power at night.

On a partly cloudy day the output of a solar system will be all over the place from low to maximum. That brownout condition is not what AC electric motors will function well on. You could use variable speed DC motors and allow them to run at whatever voltage is available directly from the panels, but that has drawbacks too.

I don't know how well inverter generators handle having power applied to their output terminals. That would be the situation if the generator and a grid-tied system were combined in a service panel. They would each have their own dedicated circuit breaker that they feed the panel through. Generators are designed to be power sources, not sinks. Whether that is not an issue with inverter gens, I don't know.

Assuming the generator is going to work that way, it would supply the clocking for 60 cycles that the grid-tied system would sync to. The loads on the panel would draw from the combined generator and solar inverter output with the generator filling the grid function.

Where trouble would start is if the load exceeds that combined capacity; there is no grid or battery bank to make up the difference. Let's say the load is 4 kW, the generator is a 2 kW unit, and the solar system has a 4 kW capacity. You won't always get the 2 kW needed from the solar system to meet the 4 kW load unless it is a cloudless day. It could easily vary from .5 kW to 4 kW. In any case at dawn and dusk you won't get the 2 kW either. If motors are starting and stopping, the start-up loads need to be met too.

The price differential between a 2 kW and 5 kW generator (needed for a 4 kW load) is a lot less than the cost of the solar system. Plus it works in the dark of night, during storms, and on cloudy days. I don't see much advantage in trying to use a grid-tied solar system as a generator fuel saver or capacity extender/booster.

You can open the main service disconnect and take care of the utility line backfeed safety issue. A manual breaker lock-out meets code, but lock-outs are not designed for two backfeed breakers IIRC. There is likely a reasonable solution for that problem.
 
   / Grid-tied solar #659  
The price differential between a 2 kW and 5 kW generator (needed for a 4 kW load) is a lot less than the cost of the solar system. Plus it works in the dark of night, during storms, and on cloudy days. I don't see much advantage in trying to use a grid-tied solar system as a generator fuel saver or capacity extender/booster.
Not workable as a capacity extender IMO due to the variable output, just as a gas saver. My thought is that the fuel savings would be a bonus of having a grid tie system.
On the "backfeeding the inverter issue" I suspect that as long as your total load is low enough that the genset can handle it, the genset will just see a reduced load when the solar panels are producing power.

You can open the main service disconnect and take care of the utility line backfeed safety issue. A manual breaker lock-out meets code, but lock-outs are not designed for two backfeed breakers IIRC. There is likely a reasonable solution for that problem.
Most grid tie systems (from what I understand) will not "fire" the inverter and supply power until they see 120VAC @ 60hz, thus only one lockout is needed.

Aaron Z
 
   / Grid-tied solar #660  
A question concerning home solar power: A bit off thread but thought someone here might know the answer.

This is about OFF grid solar and not an invitation to debate ... please.

Is off-grid solar susceptible to EMP? If so, is it only specific components at risk?
 

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