Benefits of block heater even if engine start without one

[woodchipper]

I have never used synthetic oils in tractors. But I agree to say as long as your API classification is equal or better to what is prescribed by the manufacturer, your are good to go. But tractors run at low RPMs, so does the oil pump. This could possibly translate in a lack of "splash" onto critical moving parts. Since synthetics retain their low viscosity value regardless of embient temperature, it is safe to say that they will bring superior performance on the part of the engine at cold start up.
My tractor starts hard below freezing. I use an inline water heater, not a block heater. I think it outperforms hands down the conventional block heater which creates "hot" spots. I will plug in the tractor twenty minutes before intended use. Once started, I will run it at idle for a few minutes, then get going. I will stay below 1500rpm for the first five to ten minutes, before pushing it higher. Works good for me and the tractor

 

[grm61]

I have never used synthetic oils in tractors. But I agree to say as long as your API classification is equal or better to what is prescribed by the manufacturer, your are good to go. But tractors run at low RPMs, so does the oil pump. This could possibly translate in a lack of "splash" onto critical moving parts. Since synthetics retain their low viscosity value regardless of embient temperature, it is safe to say that they will bring superior performance on the part of the engine at cold start up.

Oiling is done by the oil pump unless your running a lawn mower and is done by pressure fed oil, if the crank is in the oil to make a splash it is overfull, and aerating the oil, air doesn't lubricate
The hardest thing starting a diesel, or any engine in cold weather, is pumping the cold oil.

 

[3930dave]

I have never used synthetic oils in tractors. But I agree to say as long as your API classification is equal or better to what is prescribed by the manufacturer, your are good to go. But tractors run at low RPMs, so does the oil pump. This could possibly translate in a lack of "splash" onto critical moving parts. Since synthetics retain their low viscosity value regardless of embient temperature, it is safe to say that they will bring superior performance on the part of the engine at cold start up.
My tractor starts hard below freezing. I use an inline water heater, not a block heater. I think it outperforms hands down the conventional block heater which creates "hot" spots. I will plug in the tractor twenty minutes before intended use. Once started, I will run it at idle for a few minutes, then get going. I will stay below 1500rpm for the first five to ten minutes, before pushing it higher. Works good for me and the tractor

What brand of inline coolant heater do you use woodchipper ?

I'm curious because I tried one many years ago on a car - that one worked really well, but burned out by the end of the first season.

Rgds, D.

 

[GManBart]

I'm pretty happy that my backhoe already had a block heater when I bought it. I compared with, and without, using the block heater on days with similar temps and there is no comparison at all. When the block heater has been on for an hour or two, the engine starts quicker, and runs smoother (as if it had been running for 5min or so already)....that has to be better for it since the oil is already warm enough to flow normally.

 

[skyhook]

I'm pretty happy that my backhoe already had a block heater when I bought it. I compared with, and without, using the block heater on days with similar temps and there is no comparison at all. When the block heater has been on for an hour or two, the engine starts quicker, and runs smoother (as if it had been running for 5min or so already)....that has to be better for it since the oil is already warm enough to flow normally.

Sounds good,:thumbsup: So!! For the record, how often have you stared it.
Are you in that 2 week category.

 

[namesray]

I'm pretty happy that my backhoe already had a block heater when I bought it. I compared with, and without, using the block heater on days with similar temps and there is no comparison at all. When the block heater has been on for an hour or two, the engine starts quicker, and runs smoother (as if it had been running for 5min or so already)....that has to be better for it since the oil is already warm enough to flow normally.

Agree on the difference in looks and sounds by pre warming on cold starts, but how much extra wear and tear really happens when it has not been pre warmed in freezing temps? I dont know of anybody here in the Pennsylvania winters who pre warms there gas engine vehicle and those engines last and last. Most get traded in or sold still running good with well over 100k miles.

My kubota b3200 (tier 4 interm) will stutter, smoke terrible on cold starts even at temps of 45 f outside. If I take the time to pre warm it, it will start/sound great. I asked kubota if any harm was beeing done to the engine with these sputtery/smokey starts, they told me no, that is fine.

My point is, I am just wondering given the costs of electricity to pre warm and the inconvenience of either having to remember to plug the tractor in or pay the big electric bill and leave it plugged in all the time, is there that much extra wear on the tractor cold start without prewarming that makes it really worth doing it? A never prewarmed tractor may last just as long as one that someone took all the time and money to prewarm everytime, or does prewarming add thousands of hours of life expectancy to the tractor???

 

[keony]

Agree on the difference in looks and sounds by pre warming on cold starts, but how much extra wear and tear really happens when it has not been pre warmed in freezing temps? I dont know of anybody here in the Pennsylvania winters who pre warms there gas engine vehicle and those engines last and last. Most get traded in or sold still running good with well over 100k miles.

My kubota b3200 (tier 4 interm) will stutter, smoke terrible on cold starts even at temps of 45 f outside. If I take the time to pre warm it, it will start/sound great. I asked kubota if any harm was beeing done to the engine with these sputtery/smokey starts, they told me no, that is fine.

My point is, I am just wondering given the costs of electricity to pre warm and the inconvenience of either having to remember to plug the tractor in or pay the big electric bill and leave it plugged in all the time, is there that much extra wear on the tractor cold start without prewarming that makes it really worth doing it? A never prewarmed tractor may last just as long as one that someone took all the time and money to prewarm everytime, or does prewarming add thousands of hours of life expectancy to the tractor???

That is the question! After reading this and other similar threads, my path will be get through this (my first winter) without, but I'm going to install a block heater next summer. Trying to make the tractor outlast me...

 

[3930dave]

Ray - For wear - see the graph MHarryE linked, then Garandman posted directly, on page 3.

That graph illustrates well where the expression "Most wear occurs at Startup" comes from. You want to spend the least amount of time possible with the engine cold. Harry won't say it, but I will..... he's forgotten more about the Engineering end of diesels, than most of us will get to know.

For your climate, 2-3 hours block heater time is probably all you need.

Have you calculated what your BH actually costs you to run ? If you are having trouble with that, post your block heater wattage, and your electricity rate (highest if on Time of Use), and we'll check your #'s.

Ex. If you have a 1,000 watt heater (most scuts will be less), and you are paying 10 cents/kwh, your direct cost is 20 cents to run that for 2 hours.

Even if my allow for my crazy Ontario utility fees on top of that by doubling..... that's not even 1/3 of the price of a small coffee around here.

Post your data, and we'll figure out some exact #'s - it's probably less than you think.

Rgds, D.

 

[BarnieTrk]

namesray,

I understand the comment points you make. I don't intend to be argumentative, but, if your interested - here are my responses to them:

First off, I'll agree that the benefits of pre-warming vary widely between a gasoline-powered and a diesel-powered engine.

Regardless, after considering all the comments and observations here, in my novice & humble opinion, the pre-warming on cold starts makes good sense; I don't think anyone will dispute the fact that the (gas or diesel) engine simply sounds 'happier' with a little heat put into it prior to being starting on a cold day.

Now does cold start wear affect re-sale value or produce measurable & noticeable wear? - apparently it does not produce an obvious difference (no, I'm not disputing the data in the chart provided by Garandman @ post #27) when it comes to resale values. Just like cars/trucks, the resale value is typically based on overall condition, and doesn't usually come down to measuring the amount of wear inside the engine cylinder bores......... As you noted, many vehicles are sold with its engine still running good, which then moves its re-sale value assessment amount to be determined by other factors....tire wear, hydraulic system condition, sheet metal condition, electrical system condition, etc.

Regarding your Kubota service man's comment regarding any harm done by cold starting - I'm not surprised that he'd stand behind the verbiage in your Owner's Manual re: cold start operations every day. Why would you expect anything but that?

Regarding the cost of electricity to pre warm an engine? Let me refer you back to Danny C's post #15..... assuming his cost values, wattage use of the block heater, to be close to yours, then using the middle ground of his posted electrical cost range, it would cost $0.13/hour to run the block heater. Most posters claim/recommend to operate their pre-heating block heaters for an hour or two. Going to the high side, 2hrs, it costs Danny C $0.26 to pre-warm his tractor - to make it start much 'happier' on those cold days.

How many days a year would you use your block heater? Even if you started your tractor EVERY DAY, for the course of December to April (4 months, approximately 120 days) the total cost comes to $31.20.... If you started your tractor every other day, it would be half that, or $15.10 for the four months/year..... Let's say you own your tractor for 10 years, that's is an additional total cost/investment of 10 x $15.10 = $151.00 -- far from being a remarkable or deal-breaker amount when it comes to re-selling a ten year old tractor in the likely 14K$-18K$ range. I'm sure we don't need to get down to splitting hairs and need to consider the cost of the extension cord and the timer...

Regarding the, "...inconvenience of ....having to remember to plug the tractor in..." I can't measure that...... I would only suggest to use a timer if its that much of a big deal.

Regarding, "...leave it plugged in all the time...." No one here said that is necessary. I'll reference the above use of a timer.

Regarding, "A never prewarmed tractor may last just as long as one that someone took all the time and money to prewarm everytime, or does prewarming add thousands of hours of life expectancy to the tractor???" I'll simply say, no,,, I don't believe it will add thousands of hours to the life expectancy of the tractor... but, I do believe it will make it's life easier along the way.

But HEY - the bottomline here is, "To each their own way".
I enjoy the discussions here. It makes me consider the reasoning behind my own decisions, and I like that. :2cents:

BarnieTrk

 

[GManBart]

I doubt it, but it's possible that pre-warming won't add one minute of longevity to an engine, but it's certainly not going to hurt anything. I would estimate that even 30-60min of running a block heater will make a huge difference in how the engine starts, and it will cut down (significantly) the amount of time idling you need to do before you can work the machine. That's what I really like...jump in it, start it up, and within a couple of minutes you can be working, rather than waiting 10-15min for it to warm up enough that it seems safe to work.

The reduced warm up period will save on your fuel expenses over time, so it should somewhat (if only slightly) offset the cost of running a block heater.

Now I'm wondering if anybody makes heaters for transmissions and hydraulic fluid...