Chinese clone engines, the good bad and the ugly

[/pine]

Need me to go again?

Not right now thanks...
...But breaking up your missive(s) into paragraphs will make it/them much easier to read...

Welcome to TBN...

 

[ace26dan]

thank's for the english lesson,I will do better when my blood pressure goes back down

 

[murphy1244]

Welcome to TBN

 

[ace26dan]

You just don't get it,do ya?

Not right now thanks...
...But breaking up your missive(s) into paragraphs will make it/them much easier to read...

Welcome to TBN...

 

[/pine]

thank's for the english lesson,I will do better when my blood pressure goes back down

Sorry, not meant as a "lesson" just an observation...
A lot of times (and if you stick around long enough you too will see) long, unformatted posts get replied to with much worse than a lesson...a lot of members simply won't bother even reading them (and some will tell you that flat out)...FWIW...

Again...Welcome to a great (and sometimes wild and crazy) forum...in some cases normal BP is a rarity...!

 

[/pine]

You just don't get it,do ya?

I'm curious what it is I don't get?

 

[Iowan]

Someone forgot to take there meds yesterday.

 

[Brad_Blazer]

Welcome to TBN Dan, and thank you for your service.

Thanks for the interesting insight and product review. Some people on here, bless their hearts, think they are so clever in couching their insults as advice that you won't realize they are trolling you. We're not all like that. It's a tractor forum, not a liberal arts essay contest.

 

[BHD]

since this thread resurfaced, I am reporting that the "Kohler courage" Courage SH265, engine I bought has provided to be a good buy, and has ran a good number of hours on the air compressor I put it on,
good starting and running engine.

I did do the fast oil changes as suggested on the first page, by ky billhilly post 18

I read somewhere that someone whom used these regularly would change the oil after an hr, then 2, then 3 until it came out clean and clear which resulted in zero failures of the mechanical sort. A few qts of oil is a cheap investment if it results in longevity.

 

[muddstopper]

I don't like supporting the Chinese either,but in the 60's and 70's,the hippie's and draft dodger's were sure against killing them!,(Viet Nam) if you think the Chinese were not there,wanna buy a bridge? enough politic's,the people that say the chonda's are junk,you might want to check and see where the real "Honda's" are assembled,a lot of American companies have factory's there that have product's made to their spec's,most aftermarket automobile part's are made in china,with stringent spec's, from U.S.companies',same as mexico,Canada etc.,now for my experience with "Chonda's,first I have a 10,000 watt portable generator,dual fuel,15 hp electric start,bought it in 2009,during and after hurricane Katrina we were without power for 9 days,this "chonda" ran our 1800 sq.foot house with out so much as a whimper,a tank of fuel and a 20lb propane bottle was good for two day's,after a re-fuel I would change the oil,hit the starter and it was ready for another two day's,there were times I forgot we were on generator power,I still have it,it still start's first and every time,I keep it in my shop,covered up,bring it out about once a month,crank it up and let it run the a/c in my shop for an hour or so just to give it some exercise,I did have to "excite" it a couple year's ago,but this can be done with a electric drill,just took a volt or two,and it was awake,I have since bought two more 4k "chonda's" one is great the other one flew apart,you chonda basher's excited!,I accidently dropped the governor shaft down in the motor while it was running,I patted myself on the back for that moment of brilliance,when I did an autopsy on the murdered engine,it has the same plastic oil slinger,like everything else,and to my surprise the governor had a very slight bend in it,and the oil slinger was broke in two,but that was all the damage,new governor shaft and slinger,it was resurrected from the "chonda" graveyard,now more politic's,ever bought a toyota,Nissan,Mitsubishi,japenese right?,but they are made in America now,right?,yes, some of them are,where do the profit's go for the sales of these "American" assembled car's,Washington D.C. to use in lieu of our taxes,support our military,nope!,it goes to Japan,the country we leveled in 1945,and re-built them into one of the largest economy's in the world,after WWII,we allowed them to make cheap japnese toy's to send over here,then we taught them how to make cheap transistor radio's and send over here,I played and listened to this stuff as a child,look at them now,ever heard of "Sony,Panasonic,that was our technology,I won't get started on Germany,we support every economy in the world,communist,dictatorship's,extremeist,all of 'em,so don't pick on China by bashing their product's on public forum's, we taught them how to make this stuff,another WWII story,the Chinese were being over run by our long time friend's,Japan,we saved their *** and taught them how to survive and catch up with the rest of the world,they did,they started selling us "chonda's" they aren't going away until the American worker get's off their ***,and does a day's work for a day's pay,until then,we will be using imported product's,like " chonda's",one more thing,look on the collar of your shirt,where was it made? I can tell you,"Viet Nam",where we lost 17,000 American soldier's to create a democracy,no one,not our own country supported us,we were spit on when we came home from a real killing war,some called it a police action,just like Korea,dem-dere po-po was firing real bullet's home boy!

Dan Whiles
United States Army
1970-1976,
Need me to go again?

well I dont know why you chose my post to resurrect a 2year old thread. seems you might have a chip on your shoulder, woke up in a bad mood, or whatever. I was around in the 60's and 70's too. I very well remember Vietnam altho I was still in high school when it ended. I have a uncle that left one leg and his other foot over there. I appreciate your sacrifice and service that allows me the freedom to express my opinions. Which is exactly what I did in the post that you quoted. You dont have to agree with my opinions but dont throw your tantrums at me which is how your post came over to me.

Now there are a few thing in your post I take exception to. For one the part about Toyotas, Nissan, ect being built in america. Certainly you dont know the difference in a assembly plant and a manufacturing facility. Yep, they assemble their cars here, but mostly from Foreign made parts. Those parts are brought into the US thru duty free ports established during the Clinton administration. Nothing new, Ford and Chevy have been getting their parts from overseas for years as well, but the difference is they are not allowed to use those Duty free ports of entry as the foreign car companies do. This gives the Foreign companies a big advantage when it comes to the cost of assembling their products. They get to build their products int their manufacturing facilities in their countries, ship them to the US, without paying import fees, than assemble them in their assembly plants that they are allowed to build ( begged to build would be a better word) in areas that give additional tax breaks, and often on donated lands, and then sell those products in our markets, while protecting profits by sending them to their home country where tax rates are much lower than here in the US.

I stand behind my statement that China steals their technology from US and other country corporations. Its a known fact. We build it, they copy it. Often with patent infringments that china courts refuse to rule against the China companies when taken to court.

I refuse to buy the China clones for the very reason you where fighting in Vietnam, because I believe in supporting The American people, workers and companies instead of sending my money overseas to someone that hates us. You fought with you body, I fight with my pocketbook.

Its not always possible anymore to buy something Made in the USA, so many of our corporations have been forced to move their facilities out of country. A lot of attention is given to this and it seems the media would have us believe its because of cheap labor and corporate greed. While there is some truth to those statements, the biggest single reason is because of the corporate tax rates in the US. Right now corporate taxes rate for US companies is around 40% and is the highest in the world. China is at 25%. Simply moving your company to China will save your corporation 15% in taxes. This far outweights the savings in labor once freight charges for moving your product back to the US market are factored in. Freight cost alone to get your product to market can easily double the cost of your product. Its not a matter of, and I quote you, " they aren't going away until the American worker get's off their ***,and does a day's work for a day's pay,". Plenty of American would love to have a job and work for a living, but our Government has made it all to easy to set on your arsh and draw entitlements and made it all to hard for a corporation to survive in this country.

 

[BHD]

I refuse to buy the China clones

the problem I see is how does one get around it?

nearly ever manufacture in America is either having there stuff made in China or rebranding Chinese products, even Honda (which is not a US company) Honda Engines | Manufacturing Locations

Engines for the U.S. market are primarily sourced from the U.S., Japan, and Thailand

but does not mean they never use made in china engines,

power tools of the name brand tools few if any are made in the USA any more, (hand and power tools)

a number of years ago, I was working on a truck and needed a special puller, so I order a OTC, brand tool could have ordered it under a known china importers, but I wanted MADE IN USA, so I spent the extra money to support the AMERICAN WORKER AND COMPANY, what Did I get MADE IN CHINA, and since then I do not make and effor to buy USA, if the companies do not want to support US then I do not need to support them, (try to buy auto parts that are not Chinese made), yes I prefer US made items but I can not hardly find them.

WHY should I pay double for a US companies rebranding of a Chinese made item? or a Japanese company selling China and Thailand made engines to me for a premium price, because of there name is on them.

another story I wanted a good vice, (back when sears was still a store and had mail order), so I searched the craftsman catalog, and ordered a very good and expensive vice, expecting a US made tool, came and said made in Japan, (It has been a quality tool for the last 30 years, but it was NOT US made, was disappointed, when the normal was US made products for that company. but soon after that sears fell apart.

 

[muddstopper]

I agree, it very hard to find Made in the USA anything. And for what its worth, since this thread started 2 years ago, I did buy a predator engine from Harbor freight. It starts, it runs and is about all I can say on that subject. My "OLD" vise is a Wilton, made in the USA, found it in a trash pile. Cleaned it up and been using it for years. Hand tools in my tool box are a assortment of made everywhere. I stay away from the el-cheapo made in China, flea market tools, some things the quality is very evident on. Snapon is head quartered in my home town, and I have bought some things from them when they have a open house tool sale, but I seldom get to make it on sales day. Craftsman used to have a tool plant in KingsMnt NC. they made wrenches and sockets there. Plant closed shortly after NAFTA was signed. As the words of Ross Perot, the Great Sucking Sound as jobs and manufacturing started leaving the USA.

 

[SPIKER]

I...

Craftsman used to have a tool plant in KingsMnt NC. they made wrenches and sockets there. Plant closed shortly after NAFTA was signed. As the words of Ross Perot, the Great Sucking Sound as jobs and manufacturing started leaving the USA.

Yes that NAFTA was sure nice for the American Worker Clinton and Powers that bee touted how much it would HELP USA Jobs. They were right for scrap metal recyclers and Moving Companies who shipped the tooling and factories in whole sale moves into Mexico and elsewhere. I did some of the factory tear outs & packed Hundreds of tons of equipment onto semi trucks heading south.

Only 1 has ever came back that happens to be because they went to area where raw materials were sparse & transportation costs shot way up in the late 2000s Headstrome (walmart play ball manufacture) moved out of Ashland City in mid late 1990's and came back in late 2000's & is only one I know of in this area to "COME BACK!"


2 years ago Oblamo was pushing REALLY hard to pass the latest one a Pacific free trade agreement (China, Korea, Japan and basically every 3rd world country) with access to the Pacific Ocean is signing it as fast as they can pushing USA to do same. I have not heard much on it lately so hopefully it is DEAD.


m

 

[muddstopper]

Nafta passed with bipartisan support, so I guess we cant blame it all on Clinton. Altho My wife was working at Levis when they shut the door and moved to Mexico, and than at another textile company that also made the move south. When you stop to think aout it, Nafta practicaly stopped the illegal immigration of South American. Why come here, jobs where becoming readily available in their countries. The big boner I blame Clinton for was giving China favorite trading status. As soon as that happened, jobs in south american quickly dried up as companies moved to China and the illegals started coming to America in droves looking for work.

 

[bigdeano]

I can tell you,"Viet Nam",where we lost 17,000 American soldier's to create a democracy,

A slight correction, we lost over 58,000 there. I knew some of them, I spent 1969 there. Ancient history now.

 

[300UGUY]

Nafta passed with bipartisan support, so I guess we cant blame it all on Clinton. Altho My wife was working at Levis when they shut the door and moved to Mexico, and than at another textile company that also made the move south. When you stop to think aout it, Nafta practicaly stopped the illegal immigration of South American. Why come here, jobs where becoming readily available in their countries. The big boner I blame Clinton for was giving China favorite trading status. As soon as that happened, jobs in south american quickly dried up as companies moved to China and the illegals started coming to America in droves looking for work.

NAFTA passed thru a Republican congress, it was actually negotiated in the term of Bush 1. It didn't pass until the republicans took control of congress in 1994. And Clinton signed it, so yeah, he is on the hook for that also.

 

[300UGUY]

One thing I find weird is the blame on American worker's wages and or work ethics for the loss of jobs. In every case I have seen, the wage differential between the US worker and the Asian, or Mexican worker hasn't been something you can bridge. A few local suppliers here went to Mexico because the wages there were only about $3, "all in". In one case in Michigan, a manufacturer of refrigerator compressors was paying $12 to $15 per hour. The state offered to build a new factory here, at no cost to the company, lease it to them for $1 per year, plus training money and other tax breaks. The company ( Electrolux ) declined. $3 per hour labor would pay for a new factory in a year or 2. Who can work for $3 per hour? How can you possibly compete with that? And bear in mind, the foreign governments are offering incentives and tax breaks also. So it isn't just wages. And the foreigner's have the same or better technology than we do. No home team advantage there.

 

[Rio_Grande]

All I know is when I went to replace my log splitter motor, a Briggs that served me for many years, I found that a direct replacement was going to cost so much I started looking at new splitters,,, well they are double the price as well. Bottom line for 140.00 I bought a chi Honda and now my family has wood for the winter. I don't care who made it. When the day comes that a Koehler or Briggs doesn't cost 4 days wages I will be happy to buy one again. For now,, well I have 3 of the chi Hondas floating around and they all run every time. I would love to buy everything made in the USA,, but I can't.

 

[stingray1]

The fact that Factory Honda parts are direct replacement for the chinese engines says one of 2 things. One either Honda has licensed their patents to the chinese manufacturers or China stole and is making illegal copies of the honda engines. All to often the copies are not legal copies and you have chinese companies making illegal copies, all with the chinese government backing and support, of other companies products. Ask BMW about the chinese knockoff that actual BMW parts will fit, fenders, doors, hoods, ect. Even after sueing the chinese car company, the Chinese courts rules that the autos where not anywhere alike and therefore there was no patent infringement. Why are the chinese parts so cheap, well for one the chinese companies dont have to spend any money on research, just buy and original and make a copy. Second, Clinton gave China favored trading status which allows China to import their product to the USA without haveing to pay any taxes or tariffs on those pruducts. All the while, try selling a American product to China, it will be hit with all kinds of special import fees that make it to expensive to compete with the illegal chinese made clones of the similar product. Chinese made products, a lot without proper product licenseing, are being sold in the Walmarts, Targets, Kmarts stores. So much so that Walmart sold chinese products contribute a full 10% of our entire trade deficit with China. Thats 10% thru just one company.

To me its not a matter of price or quality, its a matter of ethics. I cant control your ethical choices or buying decisions anymore than you can control mine. I can control mine and I choose to not support an economy that is destroying our own. And why would I want to buy 3 of something just to do what one quality product would do. Even the math doesnt support your decision, considering the price of three chinese goods is the same as the one quality goods, and then factor in the down time and expenses of haveing to change out the engines when each one goes bad. Not for me, I figure my time is worth something to.

Bingo,I'm with you brother.

 

[muddstopper]

Since 2000 we have lost over 60,000 factories in the US. Not just because of Nafta, but also Cafta, PNTR with China and now the current government is pushing for another free trade agreement called the Trans Pacific Partnership, TPP. The current agreements have already costed millions of American jobs. Why should we support any agreements that send jobs off shore, reduce out manufactering capacity and our ability to defend ourselfs. We show our support for such agreements when we choose to buy the products made offshore.