engine: tuning more HP?
- Thread starter TSO
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OP
TSO
Elite Member
Again ... I don't have this tractor. This is just a conversation to see if it can easily be done, to see if jumping up in engine size is worth it.
Danny C
Silver Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2014
- Messages
- 159
- Location
- Porters Lake, Nova Scotia
- Tractor
- 2014 LS U5020C w/ LL5100 Loader
I turned up the fuel pump on my LS U5020C (Mitsubishi engine) last March and don't regret it for a second. The improved responsiveness and lack of engine lack is very noticeable. It allows me to do the same work in a higher gear and less rpm.
Have you considered a skid steer loader? It seems from your post that it may suit the work you do a little better and with impliments run via hydraulics.
Have you considered a skid steer loader? It seems from your post that it may suit the work you do a little better and with impliments run via hydraulics.
OP
TSO
Elite Member
Actually, a tracked SS is on my future acquisition list for my business, so I can get a little heavier into lot clearing. Something like a Cat 277c, or ASV100, etc. But for now, all of my implements are 3pt driven, and they do the jobs effectively enough for now.
My goal is to have a SCUT tlb, my midsize HST CUT, and the tracked SS. But for this one more year, I'll just have the CUT. Only occasionally, when stump grinding or heavy grading, could I use more HP. Of course, I could always use a tad more loader lift, mainly just when moving pallets, but my loader warranty will be up next month so I may look into adjusting that a touch.
So anyhow, I'm just trying to figure out if it would be worth it to jump up to the 3 liter engine over my 2.2 liter, if that 3 liter could be tuned to run at 60 horse like it is in the 1660. That would be a 25 percent jump in HP from my 1648, which would probably equate to about 8-10 hp at the PTO.
Lol, these are just off season thoughts for the winter time!
gladehound
Veteran Member
Just a thought - if the HST is not offered on the ~55 or ~60 HP MS 16XX trators and only the ~52HP version, perhaps the HST tranny is only designed for max ~52 hp. Otherwise, why would it not be an option?
OP
TSO
Elite Member
I would imagine it has more to do with their sales team assuming that people wanting over 50 HP would be using it more for farm use and would prefer shuttle/PowerShuttle.
But I suppose you could be right.
tman1020
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2014
- Messages
- 1,467
- Location
- north west indiana
- Tractor
- Bobcat ct225 and Bad Boy zero turn
This thread got me thinking of the kioti ck line up 3 tractors same frame 3 different hp ratings. 28/30/35. They do list different cubic liters for each so I don't think turning up pump is what they do. I have a hard time understanding why they offer such close options.
Another thing in hydrostat models all three use same pressure relief setting I believe. I wonder if you're massys are the same.
Another thing in hydrostat models all three use same pressure relief setting I believe. I wonder if you're massys are the same.
Opti-Mist
Platinum Member
Based on reliability research done over time, regardless of manufacturer, in any given family of tractors that share basic major components except for modifications to accommodate increased power, there is a degradation in reliability as power increases.
OP
TSO
Elite Member
Any links to that research?
I would like to see this research myself! I would especially like to see the information gathered from the designer who told the researcher exactly what the parameter of each engine design was originally to be and how they were told to factor longevity into their design. Simply put base the design on cost or a balance between cost and function or build it to last no matter the abuse it is subjected to. There is a big difference between stretching a designs limits and having slight variations of power output based on the components abilities.
Simply said if its built for 50 Hp and your only going to tune 40 hp in some variations your hole theory is blown out of the water!
wmonroe
Elite Member
Will the degradation in reliability be seen in the life of a average tractor? I would guess not in the majority of cases.
C4Ranch
Veteran Member
Got a nearby Massy dealer? Might be worth spending some time talking to the mechanics. They may have experience being inside both engines... Otherwise you could hang out with the parts guy looking up cam pn's, etc...
Danny C
Silver Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2014
- Messages
- 159
- Location
- Porters Lake, Nova Scotia
- Tractor
- 2014 LS U5020C w/ LL5100 Loader
I would doubt that considering that I am now able to run my tractor in a higher gear to do the same tasks, thus lowereing engine RPM. lower RPM obviously is easier on the engine. I've even noticed an improvement in fuel consumption.
orezok
Super Member
I live at 3,500 MSL so I've lost about 10% of of my Kubota's HP. I turned up the IP and now it performs more like sea level power. I don't foresee it having any effect on longevity.
MinnesotaEric
Super Member
Increase turbo boost and fuel. In other words, you need to hack the ECU. You may see if the different models use different ECU part numbers but identical wiring harnesses as a strategy to instantly bless your engine with more power.
As to why one chassis is longer, the reason is likely beefier components in the driveline be it transmission, axles or both.
OP
TSO
Elite Member
No turbo applies here ... The 16xx series is tier 3, larger displacement, naturally aspirated.
MinnesotaEric
Super Member
Check to see if the entire family with the same engine uses the same ECU part number.
If so, look to increasing fuel, if different and the same part number for the wiring harness and main sensors, then look at buying the ECU.
The Fred
Veteran Member
Pull a fred and never look back. I did! Lets see 52 hp. with 7 lbs. boost most likely around 72+ HP with some fuel.
I bet that 3 liter with some boost will rock and roll. Hardest part would be tuning the ECM like Eric says. Does it have an ECM?
Woops did I just say that? I have no idea of your brand but certainly the tuning is with fueling, timing.
Good luck and take lots of pictures, Fred
I bet that 3 liter with some boost will rock and roll. Hardest part would be tuning the ECM like Eric says. Does it have an ECM?
Woops did I just say that? I have no idea of your brand but certainly the tuning is with fueling, timing.
Good luck and take lots of pictures, Fred
OP
TSO
Elite Member
Lol, well once again, this is all theoretical because I haven't bought the tractor... Still trying to decide if it's worth upgrading to.
It's a 4 cylinder ... Actually, so is the 2.2L in my 1648.
Also, as much as I like the turbo idea, I'm not trying to spend a fortune for upgrading HP!
So here's the breakdown. A dealer has a low hr 1652 available. Identical to my tractor in every way, except 1yr newer, 300 less hrs and the 3.0L 4cyl making 52.2 HP (stock) vs my 2.2L 4cyl making 47.1 HP (stock). If I trade, it will cost me $5000. There's no way I'd pay $5000 for 5 HP. But I would have an easier time paying that for 13 more HP (if I could boost to 60 HP just by tweaking the fuel pump).
There's the whole dilemma. Need to know if it's "boost-able".
Also, I don't believe there's a ECU, but I'm not sure. Haven't noticed one.
MinnesotaEric
Super Member
I think you want power!
Just get a Deere 4066R. $48k new and it has a loader!
http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9064567
Or how about a 2014 Kubota L6060 and loader with 180 hours for $39,900? Somebody else already took the depreciation hit from $52K new.
http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9055603
Here are some similar links:
